Comments on: The legal code for Judea http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm A Machiavellian Perspective on the Middle East Conflict Sat, 19 May 2012 18:30:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Danny the Admin http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm/comment-page-1#comment-71658 Danny the Admin Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:12:33 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm#comment-71658 Moses killed an Egyptian for merely beating a Jew. Moses was anything but humble. Besides, there're extra-canonical accounts of his endeavors in Ethiopia. Moses killed an Egyptian for merely beating a Jew. Moses was anything but humble. Besides, there’re extra-canonical accounts of his endeavors in Ethiopia.

]]> By: NEMO http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm/comment-page-1#comment-71619 NEMO Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:20:38 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm#comment-71619 You propose to employ Machiavelli to achieve messianic objectives of Judaism (?!) Whatever ends you want to achieve Machievelli can not be morally justified -- it's illogical and oxymoron --- YOU either employ backstabbing, cloakc and dagger tactics to gain riches and power and control over subjects, territories, allies, enemies for longer periods of time OR you can KEEP your moral integrity, there are non combining Morals and Machiavelli, don't mix religion into this, it's illogical and immoral ;) ( unlless you're machiavelli and want to use smoke and mirrors to recruit supporters and potential suicide bombers from Jews (!!!), then, you 're not that different from your counterparts you seem to not like very much) You propose to employ Machiavelli to achieve messianic objectives of Judaism (?!)
Whatever ends you want to achieve Machievelli can not be morally justified — it’s illogical and oxymoron — YOU either employ backstabbing, cloakc and dagger tactics to gain riches and power and control over subjects, territories, allies, enemies for longer periods of time OR you can KEEP your moral integrity, there are non combining Morals and Machiavelli, don’t mix religion into this, it’s illogical and immoral ;)
( unlless you’re machiavelli and want to use smoke and mirrors to recruit supporters and potential suicide bombers from Jews (!!!), then, you ‘re not that different from your counterparts you seem to not like very much)

]]> By: NEMO http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm/comment-page-1#comment-71618 NEMO Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:09:42 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm#comment-71618 and musar dictates to listen and respect rabbinical courts, and there are plenty in Israel, and none authorised the killing of Rabin, musar dictates being humble like Moses -- this is moral ideal I mean, It's not like it's Warsaw ghetto/ traitor/underground case, there is Supreme Court, Knesset, rabbinical authorities, Army, police, Shabak, ShinBet, Mossad, --- why did the murderer think he is better qualified than all of them to pass the *judgement*? is he a prophet? It' s all ego, and no machiavelli and musar dictates to listen and respect rabbinical courts, and there are plenty in Israel, and none authorised the killing of Rabin, musar dictates being humble like Moses — this is moral ideal
I mean, It’s not like it’s Warsaw ghetto/ traitor/underground case, there is Supreme Court, Knesset, rabbinical authorities, Army, police, Shabak, ShinBet, Mossad, — why did the murderer think he is better qualified than all of them to pass the *judgement*? is he a prophet? It’ s all ego, and no machiavelli

]]> By: NEMO http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm/comment-page-1#comment-71617 NEMO Mon, 26 Nov 2007 06:59:36 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm#comment-71617 How many are u willing to sacrifice in the territories to bring about the *solution*? As Machiavialli, would you go for another 6 mln, if you know that you can have what you want? If it was up to you to decide --- the state of Israel in 1948 or all 6 million alive instead? Listen, you are either machiavelli, or not, How many are u willing to sacrifice in the territories to bring about the *solution*? As Machiavialli, would you go for another 6 mln, if you know that you can have what you want? If it was up to you to decide — the state of Israel in 1948 or all 6 million alive instead? Listen, you are either machiavelli, or not,

]]> By: NEMO http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm/comment-page-1#comment-71616 NEMO Mon, 26 Nov 2007 06:34:39 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm#comment-71616 Your "machiavelli Plan" is like this : if it is worse it is for the better, you want settlers with their children in the line of fire, so some are desperate enough to go for suicide, sacrifice some and more like pawns, so that the world and Israel will be horrified and bring about some immediate resolution like forced exile of all arabs -- CAN you bring here some moral justification for this machiavelli(?) plan ? Your “machiavelli Plan” is like this : if it is worse it is for the better,
you want settlers with their children in the line of fire, so some are desperate enough to go for suicide, sacrifice some and more like pawns, so that the world and Israel will be horrified and bring about some immediate resolution like forced exile of all arabs — CAN you bring here some moral justification for this machiavelli(?) plan ?

]]> By: NEMO http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm/comment-page-1#comment-71615 NEMO Mon, 26 Nov 2007 06:32:25 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm#comment-71615 Danny, on Baruch Goldstein: you said "TRIED TO Defuse the pogrom" -- by massacre of unarmed men in the mosque? Why didn't he take on FATAH Security training camp? How does unloading a submachine gun on people with no arms who are praying should defuse a pogrom? Things like these are designed to start a pogrom, not to stop it, a war, revolution, etc The fact that arabs hate doesn't make killing some of them in the mosque moral and/or obligatory OR bring about new and lasting solutions --- this is not machiavelli line of thinking There is no logic in your argumentation Danny, on Baruch Goldstein:
you said “TRIED TO Defuse the pogrom” — by massacre of unarmed men in the mosque?
Why didn’t he take on FATAH Security training camp? How does unloading a submachine gun on people with no arms who are praying should defuse a pogrom? Things like these are designed to start a pogrom, not to stop it, a war, revolution, etc

The fact that arabs hate doesn’t make killing some of them in the mosque moral and/or obligatory OR bring about new and lasting solutions — this is not machiavelli line of thinking
There is no logic in your argumentation

]]> By: NEMO http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm/comment-page-1#comment-71613 NEMO Mon, 26 Nov 2007 06:11:54 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm#comment-71613 hi danny, on moral justification for execution of Rabin: if you argue moral and ethical requirements of a religious jew, you can not argue machiavelli at the same time. What I said is that killing of Rabin served no purpose as the policy and political process continued the way it did, whether it was Rabin or someone else in the office, that murderer could have just killed any bystander from the crowd in the street with the same effect -- What EFFECT and RESULT, there was no effect and no result, and no moral justification -- that was just plain stupid -- gross miscalculation in someone's grand plan (some right or/and left conspiracy to gain some momentum/political capital and move into PrimeMInister Office, or start some war) and you are trying to colorize it with ethics and some doctrines for further suicidal egomaniacs--- other than feeding his own ego, that lunatic did not gain anything hi danny,
on moral justification for execution of Rabin:
if you argue moral and ethical requirements of a religious jew, you can not argue machiavelli at the same time. What I said is that killing of Rabin served no purpose as the policy and political process continued the way it did, whether it was Rabin or someone else in the office, that murderer could have just killed any bystander from the crowd in the street with the same effect — What EFFECT and RESULT, there was no effect and no result, and no moral justification — that was just plain stupid — gross miscalculation in someone’s grand plan (some right or/and left conspiracy to gain some momentum/political capital and move into PrimeMInister Office, or start some war) and you are trying to colorize it with ethics and some doctrines for further suicidal egomaniacs— other than feeding his own ego, that lunatic did not gain anything

]]> By: Danny the Admin http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm/comment-page-1#comment-27898 Danny the Admin Sun, 20 May 2007 06:20:21 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm#comment-27898 No moral justification for execution of Rabin? The doctrine of musar. A Jewish traitor he endangers Jewish community must be executed by any Jew without explicit order of Sanhedrin. Execution of Sharon after he announced disengagement from Gaza was equally mandatory. How many pogroms in the West Bank? Plenty. They take the form of lynchings. Innocent Arabs? It seems you have never visited the Cave of the Patriarch and never saw that crowd seething with hatred toward Jews. In Judaism, God works miracles through people rather than by divine intervention. We musy do our part, and that's called politics. No moral justification for execution of Rabin? The doctrine of musar. A Jewish traitor he endangers Jewish community must be executed by any Jew without explicit order of Sanhedrin.
Execution of Sharon after he announced disengagement from Gaza was equally mandatory.

How many pogroms in the West Bank? Plenty. They take the form of lynchings.
Innocent Arabs? It seems you have never visited the Cave of the Patriarch and never saw that crowd seething with hatred toward Jews.

In Judaism, God works miracles through people rather than by divine intervention. We musy do our part, and that’s called politics.

]]> By: Nemo http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm/comment-page-1#comment-27888 Nemo Sun, 20 May 2007 03:11:41 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm#comment-27888 But my main point was: if you argue religion, why do you think politics is the answer -- maybe, the present situation is Divinely ordained? and you have to wait until the time is ripe, that was my question if you have a solution, you must be Messiah, must not you? Two-jewish-state solution is not messianic, isn't it? besides the point, how's that real-politik -- making stateless jewish refugees to fight for their lives in camps -- 2nd independence war? But my main point was:
if you argue religion, why do you think politics is the answer — maybe, the present situation is Divinely ordained? and you have to wait until the time is ripe,
that was my question
if you have a solution, you must be Messiah, must not you?
Two-jewish-state solution is not messianic, isn’t it?

besides the point, how’s that real-politik — making stateless jewish refugees to fight for their lives in camps — 2nd independence war?

]]> By: Nemo http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm/comment-page-1#comment-27887 Nemo Sun, 20 May 2007 03:04:37 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/the-legal-code-for-judea.htm#comment-27887 oy, i just read into " defusing a progrom that arabs TRIED to start" with a complacency of israeli army", don't discredit some sensible words on this site how many pogroms in west bank -by crowds or by trained Hamas or Fatah squads, G-d forbid? how's killing 29 arabs in mosque is defusing? I would say, it should start a wave of rage, not defuse, and that's what happened again, it served no purpose - oy, i just read into ” defusing a progrom that arabs TRIED to start” with a complacency of israeli army”, don’t discredit some sensible words on this site

how many pogroms in west bank -by crowds or by trained Hamas or Fatah squads, G-d forbid?
how’s killing 29 arabs in mosque is defusing? I would say, it should start a wave of rage, not defuse, and that’s what happened
again, it served no purpose -

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