A Christian editor sarcastically commented on one of my articles: “A simple, inexpensive solution: pulverize Jerusalem. Think of the problems that would solve.” After a few seconds of shock, I realized the suggestion as the quintessence of messianic attitude toward Israel. Christians exterminated the Jews for fifteen centuries, and neither mentality nor Christian religion has changed. Most Christians don’t care about the Jews and would rather see the nasty nation disappear. Survival of the Jesus’ murderers challenges Christian doctrine; if Judaism is right then Christianity is wrong. Jews try to understand why the good American or British Christians refused to bomb Nazi death camps. The answer is simple: Nazis did the thing natural to Christians. Germans viewed the extermination similarly: many detested the gruesome rumors about the death factories, but most Germans recognized that they have to do the aesthetically unpleasant thing and finally solve the Jewish problem. American newspapers dwelt on unaesthetic aspects of the genocide. Little attention was paid to annihilation of Jewish culture.
Messianic churches don’t want a secure and prosperous Israel. Many rational leaders and compassionate Christians side with the Jews, but the core attitude to Israel views her as a springboard for the eventual triumph of Christianity. To that end, Israel should not be secure. Israel that fits messianic description must suffer, shrink, fall into (leftist) idolatry, and eventually be annihilated. Few Christians subscribe to the alternate concept that Messiah comes on the wave of peace and prosperity. Christianity wants a specific Israel - the lamb of Isaiah.
You'll be surprised to hear how many Israelis would rather just see Jerusalem go away as well.
I cannot really blame these Christians for not caring about the Jewish capital. It's none of their business anyways. I'm a bit surprised this particular Christian did not care about a city that was so important to Jesus, and about the "Knessiat Hakever" Church (I don't know how it's called in English).
I must say that I, myself, entertained thoughts of the holy places just disappearing. Unfortunately, people will still fight over the rubble. There will be no difference.
Such a pity that the jewish people don't realise the friend they have in most Christians. Like all religions we also have people that take everything to the extreme. Simple fact most Christians are taught and understand that our Saviour was and is a Jew by birth. I think you should start looking at how many friends you have instead of enemies.
Well, yes and no.
The other side of Christian belief is that Jews are needed. Yes, Christians need Jews in order for their salvation to happen:
according to the John's "revelation", or hallucination, Jews must rebuild the temple before Jesus returns to Earth. Some historians claim that this is the reason why Christians have not killed off or forcibly converted all the Jews, like they did with the Pagans.
So Christians can kill up to 90% of Jews, but have to leave some 10%.
Aren't we lucky!
Ovadiah, most of Christians don't even care of Jerusalem. Catholics already have Vatican, Protestants just visit Jerusalem as a historic site. The point here seems to me this: It's historically proof the only threat to Am Israel is the enemy within. Why blame the Christians?
Of course they'd love to see the world as a peaceful one once their ideas became reality, but who don't? As for me, Christians can say whatever they want or feel. The same is for Moslems. Jerusalem was, is and will be what we JEWS want for her to do.
Do we want her to become a whorehouse? So be it.
Do we want her to become a sanctuary? So be it.
But let's stop blaming others. Jerusalem is our wife. If another man wants her, we should defend her. Why give the city away?
Jews and only jews will decide what will it be.
So far, it's a whorehouse. It's on sale..
When Jews fully realize that America and England could have saved the Jews from the Nazi extermination, but refused to do so. Everybody has to face the horrid truth that that political expediency has always been more important than millions of lives.
Jews are not exception: Nobody went out of their way to stop genocides in Cambodia, Rwanda, or Turkish Armenians. Years are going by, they are still talking, while hundreds of thousands are being murdered in Darfur, raped, dispossessed, expelled. Talk is cheap.
Only after fully realizing this, will we, Jews have real-politic. America, France, Britain anyone will help us when and only when it is expedient. International politics is selfishness and only selfishness and nothing else.
Chaim I really liked what you wrote about Jerusalem.
The city can be so much more than it is today, if the Jews had the guts to defend it.
Right now it's like when some bully tries to steal your wife, and you're just letting him because of fear.
Then, to justify your behaviour, you claim that your wife doesn't mean so much to your anyway.
Strange how things work. I got out of chronological order, and I read "Holocaust has receded" before "Sacificial lamb". When I read "Holocaust…", all I could think to say was "Amen". I'm glad I read it first.
A couple of things need to be said regarding this article, though. First, you must be right in saying that the Christian editor was being sarcastic. I would like to see the context. If he meant it, he was not any sort of Christian.
The "compassionate" Christians are the "feel good" Leftists that want the Jews to just give everything to the Arabs. They do not believe Jesus is/was God, they just like the "lovey-dovey" sayings attributed to him.
The fundamentalist Christians, many of whom are outright anti-Semites, hate the Arab Muslims alot more than they hate the Jews. They are the best friends Israel has, even if they think you will all end up in Hell if you don't accept Jesus as Messiah.
What the Nazis did to the Jews was not a particularly Christian action towards the evil Jew — it was what humans typically do to other humans. We are a vicious species.
I've said before, the Holocaust could have been averted if the British had allowed the Jews to move to the Palestinian Mandate. But WWII would still not have been avoided. NOT allowing the Jews to return to their homeland was just another aspect of the Brits' cowardly attempt to avoid the inevitable war.
Hitler was not a Christian. I don't mean, "He wasn't a 'good' Christian", I mean he was what passed in his own twisted mind for a Nordic Pagan. When he spoke of the evil Jewish influence on German culture, he meant Christianity as well, even if very few in his audience understood it. But the elite of the party understood. Christianity is just a sect of Judaism, really. Turning the other cheek is the most disgusting concept that one could possibly suggest to Hitler.
But, still, real Christians have killed alot of Jews over the centuries. They've also killed alot of Christians. Hell, Stalin killed more people than Hitler, and he was a f—— atheist.
People have not been executed for heresy by any group of Christians for several hundred years, so the religion has changed at least that much. (Ray Bright — don't talk about abortionists being murdered, because first of all, they deserve it, and secondly the Churches all always condemn such acts.)
Finally, I am not a Christian, so when I say reestablish the Temple, it has nothing to do with John's "hallucination". It is simply what must be done.
Although I completely reject the idea, are you sure, that he didn't just pick up a quote/idea from Kingdom of Heaven?
Saladin: Will you yield the city?
Balian of Ibelin: Before I lose it, I will burn it to the ground. Your holy places - ours. Every last thing in Jerusalem that drives men mad.
Saladin: I wonder if it would not be better if you did.
Spiritual Christians, (not the church in general), love Israel from which came the word of G-d through the prophets.
Unfortunately confessing Christians are mistaken for nominal "Christians". The true christian community has always been a "remnant" community just like the Jews. The crusades by the catholic pope was not only against Muslims and Jews but also against true Christians (ie Albigensis in France).
Yeshuah is the jewish Messiah and hence every true Christians must realize the he/she serves a "jewish" God who upon his return will sit on the throne of David. The suffering servant as foretold by Daniel (9:27) will first be cut off as the suffering servant for the sins of the world. Upon his return He will be Lord of Lords and King of Kings. With the psalmist I bless Israel and pray for it as a humble gentile.
the real christians who follow the word of God dont hate the jews or despise them because theres no place in theology to such sin, remember the medieval church acted outside the authority of the word of god even martin luther make wrong comments that we as truly christians mark his words wrong and sinful back in that time period. the church organization drift away from the truth of the gospel and the bible was not available until the press came to be so the bible was printed and the people were enlighted and reform after reform even today is clearing the way in this issued,we can deny the reality of churches that even had layman involve in the holocoust but true christianity loves israel the jews even jesus said salvation comes from the jews the first christian family were jews and theres no place in christian theology that encourage to force religion on people, thats wrong.christians know that we have to pray for the peace of jerusalem and not only pray but support and stand for israel remember true christians dont side with antisemitism or any other antiisraeli philosophies.
It is staggering to know how few Jews understand true Christianity. I do though understand why. Yeshua's own discription was "FEW would enter the narrow gate", and elsewhere, "fear not LITTLE flock". The idea that all of Christendom is Christian is clearly rejected by Yeshua himself. Funny much the same as Elijah found out about who true Jews were after the Ahad-Jezebel episode. Of the entire Nation at the time the LORD told him "I have reserved 7000." A small number indeed. There will be many devastated Jews (Daniel 12:1-2) and Christians (Matthew 7:21) at Judgement day.
I am a Catholic who stumbled upon your site only because I care much about the fate of Israel and our Jewish brothers. You take a remarkably anti-Christian stance when it has been the Christian United States that has largely stood by Israel when the rest of the world would abandon her in a heartbeat to placate Muslim appetites. Even today, it is Christianity in the American political system that stays the hand of the American left, who firmly believe that the Middle East problem would go away if not for the nettlesome problem of Israel and the Jews. If you don't believe me, try searching through American left sites like "dailykos.com" and searching for "Israel". Then, do the same for a conservative American Christian site. No, my myopic friend, it is not the Christians who are your enemies. It is everyone else.
It is nice to see all this Christian support.
If that is what takes to bring you people out, then maybe obadiah should write more posts like this
Though you must understand that what this one Christian wrote was just infuriating, nobody really thought that all Christians are like him.
Just like there are many different views of Jewish people.
G*d called a people out for his Name . He will save all Israel for his Name's sake, not for yours. He says so. What you have now is old Judah not Israel. ..and half of Jerusalem. Check your history. Shalom
Christians and indeed the UK have an apology to the Jewish people for our actions in the 'name of Christ'.
I don't believe however that the Crusaders were Christian, in the full sense of the word, i.e. 'born from above'. They may have carried the cross but they weren't acting on ANY orders of Yeshua to raid and pillage the Jewish people. But when the Jews here the name of Jesus I believe something clicks in their heads and it conjours up times of distress and heartache at the hands of 'christians'.
We need to share the love of God with the Jews about THEIR Messiah, as He is the fulfillment of prophecy.
I really believe dialogue like this is not only healthy but needed. I really hope and pray that the leaders of Israel will stand firm and not divide Jerusalem. However it is sad that the West are trying to force Israel into bargaining away what is rightfully theirs. To our Jewish friends we will not be able to make up for the past but please do not accept any comments from just anybody as a Christian comment. There is a lot more at work under the table (Satan) and I believe this to be a sign of the times we are living in.
Wow I can't believe how Christians have been misrepresented to Jews, I guess we have not done a very good job at all. Forgive us for that many say that America was founded on Christian principles and maybe it was but it doesn't make every one who lives in America a Christian or should I say a true Christian. Just like not every one who lives in Israel is an Orthodox Jew. Not every one who claims the name of Christ is doing what He called us to do. As I read this all I could think to my self is that what a bad job we have done for someone to believe this about my Lord and Savior and those who are called by His name. Like was said earlier true Christians are a small group and we do pray for your safety, for your government, and Jerusalem (the cup of trembling) I hope you view of us has changed a little. May the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob watch and care for you and your families.
Rey: Just a small note - Many of us do not see all Orthodox Jews as 'true' Jews, just like you don't see every Christian as 'true'.
I must say that at least I, personally, saw some very interesting comments from Christians here in this post.
I hope your voice will be heard on other topics concerning Israel, and the global Jihad, as well.
I find that in the Christian community there is a big move towards the Jewish people and their feasts and traditions. Not because we want to become more Jewish but because we understand and appreciate the meaning G-d had intended (as far as the L-rd allows us to understand)for these feasts.
I believe that the problems Israel faces has nothing to do with land but all about the different interpretation of who the Holy places belongs to. The real Christian's acknowledges the
real owners are the real Jews.
But Dewald, there is no quarrel about the holy places between the Christians and the Jews. Only between Muslims and, well, everybody else.
They burn, erase and destroy synagogues, and ancient Jewish sites, that fall into their hands; They never hesitated 'converting' churches to mosques either (The Hagia Sophia in Istanbul - Former Byzantium - Comes to mind).
They object ferociously to having those conquered places taken back from them, though. Understandable, yes, but I think that if something is really sacred in your eyes - You need to be ready to fight for it.
Dear Dewald,
There is utter confusion in Christian circles about "Jews" (tribe of Judah,some of Bejamin and some of Levi) and Israel ,the other 9 tribes.
We have some Jews back in Judah(as in Christ's day) but Israel was a nation to the north of Judah. And please remember that all Israel is to be saved. Christos speaking thru, Paul(Saul) made it clear that a true Jew is circumsized of the heart. As a Christian I am a Jew. Check it out in your bible. IT IS GOOD NEWS.
Yar I do not understand, 'I am Christian therefore I am a Jew'. You are either a Jewish or Gentile Believer in Yeshua contrary to what some would believe. ie "If you belive in Yeshua you are no longer a Jew." I also hope you appreciate that "all Israel", Romans 11, is according to Zechariah 13 approximately 1/3 of Jews that survive the tremendous conflict already on the horizon, and not every Jew.
yar — Nothing Saul, the murderer of Stephen, says is to be believed. Sorry. He destroyed the early Church by making it a "money matter". For example, the Apostles believed the dietary laws must be followed, until Saul showed up with lots of gold sent from his new Gentile converts to his (Saul's) new religion. I would suggest you read the Gospel of Thomas.
Or simply Matthew's: "Do as they [Pharisees] teach, but now what they do, for they don't do what they teach." Jesus was more Orthodox than the Pharisees.
Danny the Admin — Amen. I'm pretty sure that the only thing the Bible ever specifically mentions Jesus eating was a piece of honey comb (and a sip of vinegar).
Also, though the Bible does not specifically say so, I think it is safe to assume that Jesus was circumcised in the traditional, as well as the spiritual, sense.
Call me naive, but I believe you can be a man of god wether you are Christian, or Jewish, and that men of god should stand together in these times.
Jesus also ate fish for breakfast on two occasions I believe.
Hi Erick I hear what you are saying but there is people doing things in the name of their god that indicates that they are not serving the same God as the Jews and Christians do. Our God has a Father's heart and wants to see people believe in Him because of who He is not by force. The biggest lie is that everybody is serving the same god. There is only one God the God of Jacob and Abraham.
This is the God the Jews and Christians believe in however we the Christians believe that the Messiah has come and will come again for anyone that believes and follows Him.If Jesus ate fish or not I dont know, but what I do know is that He took two fish and fed it to 5000 which shows
that He never thought off Himself but loved the people.
Dewald I can only agree. Israel is the root stock from which it's branches were cut when it did not bear fruit. The gentile believers have been grafted onto that root, and Israel will realise one day and be easily regrafted, when Messiah returns. Shalom
Very well said Yar.
I'm not being patronising but when Messiah comes He is coming to Israel to sit on David's throne and to rule the nations as the King of Israel and as a christian I do not need the New Testement to tell me this. It is all in the Prophets. The Prophets tell you that Israel will accept the false Messiah till he renaigs on Israel.
Some of the shots at "The Revelation of Jesus Messiah" as given to John His disciple are to say this least is cheap
Whether one believes it or not the 2 billion strong army which comes against Israel, only 1/6th will leave to return home to tell the the wrath of Israel's Messiah.