http://samsonblinded.org/blog/proportional-response-nonsense.htm A Machiavellian Perspective on the Middle East Conflict Thu, 02 Feb 2012 06:09:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/proportional-response-nonsense.htm/comment-page-1#comment-515 John Sullivan Wed, 09 Aug 2006 21:49:32 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/?p=71#comment-515 1. [MODERATED]2. The "proportional response" you refer to was not just rcently "invented," and has roots going far back in time in Christian theology. Means, ends, morality.3. Israel's dispropotional response: Oh, yeah, look at how good it's worked since 1948. Israel is an international pariah--with very good reason, is still hated by virtually all of its Mideast neighbors--and Arabs and Muslims in general, is facing a two-front war from guerrila groups that wouldn't exist but for Israel's colonial occupations. Israel is a terrorist state, an apartheid state, and a segregated, racist state. It faces an inevitable demographic end as a Jewish-majority state, and there are thousands of Arab and Muslim physics and engineering students working at the moment in hopes of someday developing the nuclear weapons that will destroy Israel. Virtually every Palestinian child born anywhere in the world learns to hate Israel for its crimes against the Palestinians from the moment they are born and are bearers of a collective consciousness and unconscious, akin to that of the "wandering jews" of the millenia, to return home.You know one should tend to think: "When everyone else hates me, perhaps they have a good reason to. Maybe I'm not as right as I think I am, and maybe they have legitimate reasons not to like me." So true for Israel as a state, not true for Jews, but, unfortunately for Jews, Israel identifies itself as a Jewish state in which the distinction between "Jewish" and "Israel" is erased so the justified dislike and disapproval of Israel gets transfered to Judaism and Jews in general.Yes, a very good situation for Israel. Make everyone hate you, and then give them even more reason to hate you by committing grossly immoral acts of war and crimes of terrorism against innnocent civlians. Oh, and then blame the civlian victims for not fleeing as their homes if that elimniates your moral responsibility. Oh, yeah, destroy their roads, bridges, transportation infrastructure, make it very dangerous to move about at all, bomb everywhere leaving nowhere safe to move to, refuse to recognize that most are too poor and lack the resources to move themselves and others far from their homes, ignore the infirm, elderly, children and their inability to move themselves and the special needs they have, offer unsubstantiated claims about mass "hiding amongst civilians" (the IDF operates in Israel, which is where Israeli civilians live, so isn't the IDF hiding amongst civilians?)--as if Hezbollah and Hamas could have openly-identifed miltary bases, talk about how quickly Hezbollah and Hamas move their rocket launchers yet justify attacks on where rockets--ostensibly--have been fired from--as you claim--even though you've already acknowledeged that the soldiers and rocket launchers are almost certainly no longer there by the time you make your disproportional response to a non-longer-exisiting-at-that-location threat.Yes, look at how successful Israel's policy has been.<noscript > 1. [MODERATED]2. The “proportional response” you refer to was not just rcently “invented,” and has roots going far back in time in Christian theology. Means, ends, morality.3. Israel’s dispropotional response: Oh, yeah, look at how good it’s worked since 1948. Israel is an international pariah–with very good reason, is still hated by virtually all of its Mideast neighbors–and Arabs and Muslims in general, is facing a two-front war from guerrila groups that wouldn’t exist but for Israel’s colonial occupations. Israel is a terrorist state, an apartheid state, and a segregated, racist state. It faces an inevitable demographic end as a Jewish-majority state, and there are thousands of Arab and Muslim physics and engineering students working at the moment in hopes of someday developing the nuclear weapons that will destroy Israel. Virtually every Palestinian child born anywhere in the world learns to hate Israel for its crimes against the Palestinians from the moment they are born and are bearers of a collective consciousness and unconscious, akin to that of the “wandering jews” of the millenia, to return home.You know one should tend to think: “When everyone else hates me, perhaps they have a good reason to. Maybe I’m not as right as I think I am, and maybe they have legitimate reasons not to like me.” So true for Israel as a state, not true for Jews, but, unfortunately for Jews, Israel identifies itself as a Jewish state in which the distinction between “Jewish” and “Israel” is erased so the justified dislike and disapproval of Israel gets transfered to Judaism and Jews in general.Yes, a very good situation for Israel. Make everyone hate you, and then give them even more reason to hate you by committing grossly immoral acts of war and crimes of terrorism against innnocent civlians. Oh, and then blame the civlian victims for not fleeing as their homes if that elimniates your moral responsibility. Oh, yeah, destroy their roads, bridges, transportation infrastructure, make it very dangerous to move about at all, bomb everywhere leaving nowhere safe to move to, refuse to recognize that most are too poor and lack the resources to move themselves and others far from their homes, ignore the infirm, elderly, children and their inability to move themselves and the special needs they have, offer unsubstantiated claims about mass “hiding amongst civilians” (the IDF operates in Israel, which is where Israeli civilians live, so isn’t the IDF hiding amongst civilians?)–as if Hezbollah and Hamas could have openly-identifed miltary bases, talk about how quickly Hezbollah and Hamas move their rocket launchers yet justify attacks on where rockets–ostensibly–have been fired from–as you claim–even though you’ve already acknowledeged that the soldiers and rocket launchers are almost certainly no longer there by the time you make your disproportional response to a non-longer-exisiting-at-that-location threat.Yes, look at how successful Israel’s policy has been.

]]> http://samsonblinded.org/blog/proportional-response-nonsense.htm/comment-page-1#comment-453 Patricia D.L. Sun, 06 Aug 2006 00:03:43 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/?p=71#comment-453 I do not get any of this, I tried and all that comes to mind is the final battle the bible speaks about in revelation. So, I'm just gonna pray for all the innocent people involved, especially the children.Who knows, maybe this is it!,well'get to see jesus face to face.I better go over my list of questions for him, put some makeup on and brush my teeth!!. I do not get any of this, I tried and all that comes to mind is the final battle the bible speaks about in revelation. So, I’m just gonna pray for all the innocent people involved, especially the children.Who knows, maybe this is it!,well’get to see jesus face to face.I better go over my list of questions for him, put some makeup on and brush my teeth!!.

]]> http://samsonblinded.org/blog/proportional-response-nonsense.htm/comment-page-1#comment-422 Ben Tremblay Fri, 04 Aug 2006 01:29:52 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/?p=71#comment-422 In the name of efficiency you would dehumanize?Who is punished is the recepient of a gift ... justice.Who dehumanizes the one he punishes has become a dictator.What you have written here lucidly sets out the method of maximizing bitterness and resentment. I hope some day you will set aside your mechanics' manual and find a book of wisdom. I hear that the one that speaks of Abraham is still current, though this is hardly evident.may you be inspired by an understanding of karma; failing that may you gain some sense of entailment and causality In the name of efficiency you would dehumanize?Who is punished is the recepient of a gift … justice.Who dehumanizes the one he punishes has become a dictator.What you have written here lucidly sets out the method of maximizing bitterness and resentment. I hope some day you will set aside your mechanics’ manual and find a book of wisdom. I hear that the one that speaks of Abraham is still current, though this is hardly evident.may you be inspired by an understanding of karma; failing that may you gain some sense of entailment and causality

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