Israel humiliated the Palestinians, but then humiliated herself. Both nations are perfect scapegoats for the international community: Palestinian terrorists and their Jewish oppressors. Israel allows a stream of Jew-hatred in the Arab media; Mubarak publicly called Sharon – a prime minister – an idiot. Israel shows herself powerless, unable to fight Arab guerrillas though Syria and Egypt crushed them easily through non-humane means. Egypt routinely represses the Muslim Brotherhood, and Jordan banned Hamas, but Egypt and Jordan push Israel to cooperate with Hamas. Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon shelled Palestinian refugee camps; Israel’s shrinking from doing likewise provokes her enemies. Every Arab country refuses assimilating Palestinian refugees and bans them from many occupations. Yet the same Arabs decry Israeli mistreatment of Hamas-Muslim Brotherhood and the Palestinians generally. The Arab countries use the Palestinians as pawns in and ideological struggle with their own nations and a political struggle with Israel.
Israeli politicians realize that the public is entirely against negotiating with the Palestinians, and do so secretly; Sharon broke the talks with the PLO weeks before the 1992 elections after the Israeli media revealed them. Peres and Rabin pushed the Oslo process through while excluding even the inner cabinet ministers and the IDF staff from negotiations – and the Oslo process failed. History cannot be altered at will. The Oslo participants deferred the burning issues of Jerusalem, refugees, and settlements to the final stage of negotiations – and now stumble against them; Rabin and Peres pretended the problems will go away, but they didn’t. Neither could Arafat stem the wave of history: suicide bombings in Israel in 1996 brought a somewhat anti-Oslo Netanyahu to power. Abbas shows a different, militant face to his people than to Israel and the world; the Israeli establishment knows this and concurs.
No one needs a peace settlement: neither the Saudis, nor the Syrians, Palestinians, or Egyptians. The Egyptians tolerate Hamas’ smuggling of weapons into Gaza in the typically Arab fashion of mildly bugging an enemy (Israel, in this case) and watching how to benefit from the enemy’s problems. Egypt doesn’t want other Arab countries to establish peace with Israel, but wants to remain the regional arbiter, a conduit between Israel and the Muslim world. An independent Palestinian state in the West Bank is Jordan’s nightmare, since it would galvanize Jordan’s Palestinian majority and break the monarchy. The Saudis offered a ridiculous peace plan they know Israel wouldn’t accept, but Israel bends over backwards to show her good faith about the plan no one intended to succeed. The US doesn’t need peace: the peace process balances the American wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, but once peace ensues, US actions could only be considered anti-Muslim.
Israel’s fixation on peace with the Palestinians is absurd. The other Arabs don’t care much about the Palestinians. If Israel signs a peace deal with Palestine, other Arabs will see the peace as a product of the Palestinian struggle rather than of Israeli goodwill – thus, an Israeli defeat. After the Palestinians soundly defeated Israel and obtained statehood, other Muslim nations might be emboldened to fight Israel. Syria is a much bigger problem than Palestine. Though not capable of defeating Israel, Syria can shower her with missiles while enjoying Iran’s nuclear protection against Israeli retaliation. A peace treaty with Syria, even in exchange for the Golan Heights, will only remain on paper.
Israel cannot count on any country. America embargoed arms shipments to Israel during the 1948 war, came to the brink of fighting Israel on behalf of Egypt in 1956 and 1967, and only helped Israel in 1973 to counter the expansion of Soviet influence in the Middle East. That year, at the peak of the Cold War and during the largest Middle East war ever, the Europeans closed their airspace to the American airlift to Israel. At a critical time, Israel could be left without a foreign sponsor. It is senseless to abide by the wishes of an American administration and relinquish the meager strategic depth of defense now if American support is not assured later.
It's a dog eat dog world, had been and perhaps ever will be. Pessimistic- yes. Israel from its very beginning knew it was entering a very hostile area. They frightened the Palestinians in what is now called Israel, changed thousands of Arab streets and avenues from the Arabic to the Hebrew, and then expects to live in peace. I think this "Holy" land seizure was misguided with Palestinians paying the price for the horrors the Jews suffered in Europe by the hands of some "Christians." Europe should have been the New Israel, right in the heart of Germany or Poland even. This would have left the Middle East to sink or swim on its own.
So you're saying the unarmed Jews in Europe should have fought their European opressors, who never hesitated to butcher them, to gain a piece of land in a foreign country that they never considered their own.
From a perfectly rational point of view - it is an impossible plan.
From a Jewish point of view, it is a ridiculous, ignorant idea.
Here's another idea: I think this 'United states' land seizure was misguided with native Americans paying the price for the treatment the colonials suffered in Europe by the hands of some 'Christians'. Europe should have been the united states, right in the heart of Germany, England, and France even. This would have let the Americas to sink or swim on their own.
You know a lot of things about the subject.
I read the article and the question is:
What are palestinians supposed to do?
Mass suicide?
They can move thirty miles away to Jordan and receive compensation for their property left. That would end the conflict.
I think the South Africans tried that with the native Black Africans; certainly they would have loved all the Black Africans to move away and leave the whites alone. Isn't their a parallel to what you described in your email. The answer is a two state nation.
Yes- you hit it on the nail when you described the situation of the American Native population being subsumed by the European invaders. In the US we have tried to remedy the situation by giving back as much as is reasonably possible. European Jews were in a much better position to handle the situation their in their native land…Europe. Thousands of years of living in Germany and France and Poland gave them the right to fight, just as they did in the Polish ghettos. This is absurd though, to think that Jews are going to fight against a supposedly Christian Europe. This was a European question and should have stayed a European question, with answers to be had there.
I hit it just like you've hit the Jewish problem. With a hundred ton nail, ten thousand miles away from the spot.
Might as well ask the Roman empire if they'd like to accomodate the mongols in their borders. That would be just as relevant to this time, and this subject, as your ideas.
To Joseph: I'll take your parallel about Red Indians. How about we the Jews reduce the Arabs to 5% of their population, feed them with alcohol for generations, take over their villages, and then give them back as much as reasonably possible: say, a reservation in Gaza City?
I think you are becoming a bit absurd. But just to keep the argument going full throttle- I thought the Israelies have done just that to the Palestinians, except that it is 2007 and not 1849. Heheheheh…. And they haven't gotten any of their lands which now lays under the seats of Jewish settlers. Heheheheheh….
And Danny, by the way, it is impolitic and rather rude to call Native Americans "Red Indians."
Shouldn't the US and the western powers not guarantee the safety and security of Israel after it's been partitioned into Judea and Palestine, as difficult as that will be when it does happen. Danny, Danny, Danny, please be reasonable and remember what some Rabbis say that Jews and Palestinian peoples are all valuable, of the same worth. Children and women and men of both cultures are of equal value, no more no less- enough said…
God, I wish he was right. I wish this country did reduce them to 5% of their population, took their land, and destroyed their ability to fight back. That would've prevented a lot of the problems that we face today.
The Israelis did it the wrong way. The Americans did it the right way - Systematically destroying all Indian opposition, wether they resisted or not. It is much easier to feel enlightened and moral with someone who can never threaten you.
"Men ought either to be well treated or crushed, because they can avenge themselves of lighter injuries, of more serious ones they cannot;"
- Nicolo Machiavelli
Joseph:
I have researched this subject for almost 30 years. I have been to Israel and I know Jews and Arabs personally. More on that later-maybe.
All that aside–I am Cherokee. My grandparents and family NEVER considered it to be politically incorrect to say "Indian." The term Native American is a rather new one that is so politically correct. Whatever. You have referred to Africans as the "Black Africans." What is the difference? We Indians see the colors of the world in red, white, black and yellow. they are all the human race.
This is off the main subject-but just thought you should know an Indian's perspective.
I am mixed blood-but a tribal member of the Cherokee. Enough said.
Joseph:
The "native" land of the Jews as you say-is NOT Europe. Courtesy of the Romans, the Jews have been scattered throughout the world after the year 70. Jews have come back to their homeland-Israel. Call it Judah-call it what you will-but the Israelites-the Israeli's are back in their NATIVE land. THAT is where they came from. (Just as Cherokees are from the SE USA today-Jews are from this real estate and THEY ARE BACK!) Please read your history beginning with Josephus.
One more thing Joseph.
This is NOT just European question.
Again, read your history-not only with Josephus. I say this with the upmost sincerity but –Diaspora books are available at Barnes and Nobles. Jews are not JUST a
"European" Issue. The Waqf of Jerusalem in the 1930's conspired with Hitler to KILL ALL The JEWS-and gave his blessing to Adolf. That is an historical fact. Just ask a Moroccan Jew what they have gone through. Furthermore, the Ethiopians, the Indians, Yemenite and others.
NO–you must read in depth about this Israeli nation FIRST before you comment and seek the depth and issues from all points of view before you suggest that Jews should have stayed in Europe-or that is was a European problem. Would YOU have stayed in a place where your children were thrown alive into a fire or your family gassed to death or stripped and shot into a pit while others ate ice cream and watched it as if it were entertainment? I think not. No –European problem is not the center of this issues as you think. Jews are in their homeland–where ancestry, antiquity give testimony to their presence LONG before Muhammed was even conceived. This is Israel.
I will get to the other issues later.
Meanwhile, study and learn from Dershowitz-The Case for Israel. Joan Peters- From Time Immemorial. Diaspora-
Countless others as well.
Shalom.
Washtay/Bemoppe-("Indian" way of saying OK or until next time-we have no word for goodbye!)
Wow, Scot! That completely blew my mind off. Very impressive way of phrasing the truth.
Since native Americans are not Indians either, what do you (Not the occupying European settlers) call yourselves? Do you stick with individual tribe names (you mentioned that you are Cherokee, for example)?
Washtay!
Francesco: No, absolutely not! The Palestinians are in a very precarious situation. I personally feel that the situation in the Gaza Strip was nothing unexpected. The Palestinians must continue diplomatic bridge building with the western powers and also with the Israeli government. I think it is a wise idea also if they tried to use whatever influence the Arab/Palestinian citizens have within Israel to press their case. They must hold firm to their belief that they are deserving of their own country/nation, but the struggle cannot be fighting among themselves or killing of civilians. I have to say, personally, that I have no real answer to the situation in the Middle East. I wish I had; the above mentioned is just a thought. The USA and it's western allies should guarantee the security of Israel, with soldiers if need be, to see if the two state idea can finally become a reality. Otherwise, I just don't see any real hope their… And the killing and hostilities will continue. The security of the world is at stake since there are so many other problem areas developing in which the USA must respond, ie, Russian advances around the European continent; China emerging as a world economic power and the desire to take back Taiwan, and Australia, who may decide not to back up the US in any takeover of that island if and when the Chinese decide to invade. We have many things to worry about. And let us not forget the Iranian situation. Shalom, Adios!
See, Joseph, right now the US is selling advanced arms to Saudi Arabia and Egypt while pushing Israel to accept a 9-mile wide state (the Road Map). I won't bet on the US protection, especially after the de-classified documents show that the US actually planned to intervene in 1956 and 1967 on the behalf of Egypt.
My biggest request to the US Administration is to leave us to deal with our enemies as we see fit, instead of tying our hands diplomatically.
I agree with some of what has been posted. I agree with Danny wholeheartedly and wish that the US would leave Israel to deal with their enemies as they see fit. I am often dismayed at the intervention of the US, through political pressure, to get the Israeli's to NOT retaliate for agreesions against the people. I don't understand why so many countries and world leaders want to make certain that there is a "Palestinian State" within the border of the Nation of Israel. Israel is totally surround by Arab, Moselm countries. If they care about their brothers why doesn't say Saudia Arabia take in all the "displaced" moselms and given them land. The reason is simple; moslems want the death of every person who is not moslem and especially all the Jewish people.
As for American politicians they all seem to want to bring peace to the "middle East conflict" merely to have that feather in their cap and a place in world history. If they really cared about peace they would pressure other moslem nations to take in "settlers" and support Israel in their right to run their own country.
Many Americans are sickened by the turmoil in Israel and genuinely pray for peace.
"They can move thirty miles away to Jordan and receive compensation for their property left. That would end the conflict."
Brilliantly said.