Well, I guess this silence means that everyone agrees

It is so true what I’m reading here.

We are not a perfect friend to Israel, but we are your friend, at least that is they way most Americans feel that way.

Well, I am ashamed to admit that so much of what is written here is true. As an American I am disgusted with any support of any Islamic state, Arab or otherwise. I don’t give beans about the religion or its strange paradise infatuations, but I do hate Islam’s political aspirations, which include killing me and my children (Christians), much less the Israelis. I would not only cease all trade with those brigands, but stop all oil importation from terrorist states (all Arab states, of course). I ‘m aware that gasoline would rise to $10 gallon in America, but I care not. Resources would be found under our own blessed feet in the long run. BUT, Israeli Writer, you should look to your own warts, as well. Dealing with the Chinese, selling high tech stuff to the Turks, striking sneaky deals with your own enemies and the Eurotrash are a curse of your own government. You, Israeli, and I, American, have much to be ashamed of from both our nations when considering the duplicity and corruption of our respective governments and stupidity of our people. By the way, pass my thanks to the IDF and tell them my latest LIBI fund contribution is in the mail.

No, they do act in Israels best interest. Your description is basically correct, but nevertheless it is to Israels greater benefit to accept the assistance. Alliance with America provides the defensive depth Israel needs.

If the alliance was defunct, Israel would still need strategic depth and would need to gain this by passifying many of the listed American friendly Muslim nations. This would violate American interests (oil/Suez) and perhaps mean conflict with America. If you are not with them, you are against them and since you cannot beat them…

To Rey: Sure, the post is about American government, not American people.
To Rex: I can suggest much better objects for your contributions than LIBI. Hebron community, for example, or the organizations which work to boycott Palestinian labor.
To Unaha-Closp: do you know that the US government planned landing its troops in Sinai in 1956 an 1967 to fight on the Egyptian side against Israel?

My only advice to you is use your energies to promote peace and comfort for your own people instead of spreading all what is wrong with our world today…hatred and bias.
I have no ill feelings towards you. As an American, I am disappointed that today, in these modern times, you continue to ignore the rights of your neighbors the Palestinians who have rights to the land that is being unjustly taken away from them.
Live and let live because God has one chosen people and it is all Human Kind. He loves equally and will judge equally come Judgement Day.
Promote love and peace. Promote justice and you will all live to prosper as neighbors for the good of your future generations.
It is not fair nor honorable for you to insult those good people who perished needlessly in the horrible Holocaust by your use of this utterly unjust and biased language against another good people who are being occupied unjustly and dehumanized grossly.
Use your energies to promote good will. You have the power to do it. You will gain much more in that direction. May God give you the wisdom to do so.

(No, I was not aware of that.)

America lends an air of invulnerability to Israel. The difference between 6 million hostile people in a neighbouring Middle Eastern nation and 6 million hostile people in alliance with the hyperpower USA means Arab leaders can look competent whilst avoiding war. What I would like to know is how it could be improved upon, when I see the current situation as pretty mutually good? A lot of those Arab states would make valuable allies to China or Russia likely to fill any power vacuum, hardly an improvement. The expansion of Israel beyond 8 miles, definitely puts Israel in conflict with “Hamas-run Palestine” and possibly Lebanon, Syria & Egypt. And in a worst case scenario Israel cannot stand against a hostile America. The alternatives seem worse.

To Jonathan: It’s funny how the people like you presume to speak on behalf of God. God has already laid down the Torah, and we just follow it. Palestinians have the right to our land? Great, go give the United States to the Red Indians. Start changing the world with yourself. And it may come as a surprise to you that the Palestinians never settled Israeli plains: those were desert and marshes before Jews made them oasis and the Arabs swarmed the place. Even now, mere 10,000 Arabs live on more than half of Judea and Samaria (which people like you call the West Bank).

To Unaha-Closp: Israel won in 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973 without American support (it came when the war drew to the close in 1973). We have nuclear weapons. America twisted our hands not to enter Cairo and Damascus in 1956, 1967, 1973, and 1982.
The problem is, the cooperation with the US cannot be improved, but abandoned. We don’t want to alienate American people by taking their money, and we don’t want the American Administration to steer the Jewish state. We welcome American friends, but not masters.

Is it worth war again, because America is using you to escalate tensions so that they can sell weapons to your enemies. They are doing it in a peaceful manner, these weapons are not being used against you and they are happy to let you have a significant tech advantage over your enemies - peace exists on these terms and you’re only in direct conflict with anti-american graups, it is not a perfect world. How many lives will a war take to capture Damascus today, how about Cairo, what will constitute a violation of American interests, perhaps the Americans might do more than twist if pushed, what will Pakistan do if you take Mecca without an American ally, how many Iranian medium range ICBMs are there? The risk from abandoning the status quo seems much higher than maintaining it.

Jonathan you can start promoting peace and comfort by not lecturing people in a position that you clearly do not understand.

Danny, I wonder what suggestions does Obadiah have. He has painted a grim, realistic picture of how things are right now. Is there a way to break this siege?

And as a side note - a strong Israel would have served both the American and Israeli interests. It is this apparent weakness that makes the U.S regime consider more `efficient` allies in the region.
The problem is those allies have no respect for the U.S - Just as Obadiah wrote - they take their money, but give nothing back.

Some of the blame lies on the People of Israel after all Olmert is still in power with a new election, correct me if I am wrong but can’t the Knesset force a new election? So you can get someone in who will seek the good of its own people. The United States is becoming more totalitarian as the days go by we may not be your friend very much longer, they take away our freedoms and say they are looking for terrorists, and we are supposed to sit here and feel safe that is “BS”. We like you must take our government back to the people again not to the whim of other nation who have given money to our politicians. We like you are loosing our country to China, Mexico, and OPEC I am sick of it as well. But when voting we only have the choice of evil and more evil, I assume that is the same state Israel is in as well, why else would your politicians give land for peace, and free Palestinian Killers. Like we are trying to do here free a convicted Mexican killer, because Mexico is dictating terms to us. Rise up and take back your country use legal means until they take that away then do what you have to do, you must survive, but my fear is that we will not. May the God of Israel guide and protect you.

Rey you’ve touched the issue right on the top - Your government, our government - They do not place the people’s needs high on the scale.

The Americans are proud - They rose against the British. I believe they would rise against an oppressive government.
The Israeli people are cynical, used to being ill-treated, and full of despair. They await their turn to die…

The government of the United States is run by committed “One Worlders”, of the capitalist sort. The US is very close to revolution because of the government’s insistence on obliterating our borders with Mexico and Canada. Doesn’t matter if it’s Democrats or Republicans, because Democrats want the votes of the poor and Republicans want the cheap labor, so they both want to destroy the borders. The revolution will come. Just a matter of when.

What does this have to do with Israel? The present US government will continue to play both sides, but the Arabs and Persians know that the nukes defend Israel. If Israel suffered an existence-threatening attack, and the present US government did not respond with overwhelming force, the revolution would start HERE immediately. Our citizenry is armed and pissed-off, and our government knows it. And the collapse of the Soviet Union is recent enough to convince them it could happen.

There are lots of Leftists who pretend to be Christians, and want open borders in the US and for Israel to “just make nice” with the Arabs. Luckily, these same “Christians” hate guns and never own them.

There are also alot of Christians that don’t particularly like Jews. However, this more bigotted segment of the population is really annoyed at the Mexican invasion of our country, and they consider Israel the Holy Land and would never accept another Muslim conquest of Jerusalem (Bethlehem in Arab hands is a REALLY big issue, already). And, unlike the Leftist, “feel-good”, “Christians”, these guys are armed. Heavily.

The Israeli Jews need to quit being so cynical and defeatist. Maybe there was some excuse of ignorance when the Jews boarded the trains to the “work camps”, but no one can doubt what is happening now. No one is ignorant of what your enemies have in mind. And modern Israel is not the Warsaw Ghetto. We’re not talking flintlocks against panzers.

Do what you have to do, without waiting on US government approval. The US will back you, whether the government wants to or not.

However until Joeseph’s revolution comes the situation stands with the American government not friendly. By abandoning a subservient alliance you will lose the military assistance you do benefit from. By acting in your independent best interests you will compromise the interests of the American government who will then act against you. The abandonment of the American alliance, will in effect place you in opposition to America. America is bigger, better armed, has a larger economy and is all round more powerful than any you have ever faced.

unaha-closp — As a recovering Fabian, I still tend to try to avoid revolution by trying to explain just how close it is. I think Israel can do alot more than you might think, before the US would actually oppose her. I don’t think Danny the Admin was proposing occupying Damascus immediately. And Mecca, of course, will not be “taken”. This is the great problem for the Islamic fanatics: They have nukes deployed in stategic spots, but they know what the only retaliatory target can be.

Unaha: Beside this being your own heart-wish - that the US will destroy Israel, your idea is simply far-fetched.
Opposed by heavily-armed, nuclear Islam, the U.S has bigger threats to deal with than a state that actually fights its enemies.
The only ones who might actually intervene directly on behalf of the Muslims, are the Europeans, and their fear of war is still bigger than their anti-semitism.
Since Europe and the US are rivals, in fact, the US will not take their stand.

Speculations are all fun, but the truth is Israel doesn’t really have a choice. It is either destruction, or an attempt to break the siege. The ‘Peace process’ is an illusion that leads to destruction.
People living in Europe and New-Zealand are ok with the destruction of Israel, and I don’t blame them.
We, on the other hand, actually care about our country, heritage, and race.

!!americans are liar!!

Erick S, Personally I think the destruction of Israel would be a highly disruptive event and bad for the world economy, something I am not okay with. Also my family has Israelli relatives by marriage who would be endangered, I offer this argument in good faith to minimise this danger. Apologies for the length.
America need not act directly against Israel. Military assistance increased to Jordan, Egypt and Iraq. UN sanctions on Israel freezing of assets and banning travel. America is a long way away and quite powerful, Israel attacking it would be suicide. Thus Americas costs in weakening Israel will be quite minimal if nothing else changes. (The cost might well be higher if support of Arab regimes produces more Islamofacism, so the cost of opposing Israel could go up.)
America does not care for the muslim countries. America only cares about the Suez and Gulf oil, making stability a valuable reward for weakening the means to attack of any independent Israel. For Israel to capture strategic depth without endangering the oil supply or the Suez seems impossible, so the reward in preventing this high.
Low cost, high reward - for America.

Israel has a 3rd less risky choice, “the peace process is an illusion”, but it does not need to end. If Israel can keep negotiating for 20 - 30 years then Gulf oil will be gone and the Suez surpassed by the northern route (if you can believe AGW). With no oil the Arabs are irrelevent and Israel can do what it likes. Wait, make objection after objection to the suitability of the negotiations to extend them, they have been going on for 16 years already so make them last another 30. By not leaving alliance, America will continue to arm you and when the time is right they will probably even back you against the Arabs (when Islamic terrorists become more costly than the diminishing returns on the oil).

A) Where did you come up with the idea of attacking the U.S? We’re not in the Al-Qaeda forums.
B) You assume the Arabs are completely passive morons who would do nothing during those 30 years but sit and smile at the sun. You are talking as if they are peaceful now, and Israel is the aggressor; As if the middle-east is stable right now. It is just as stable as the Chernobyl nuclear reactor was.
On 1933, Europe could have waited until Hitler would die of old age and Nazism would miraculously disappear, but for some reason that didn’t work.
C) The dreaded ’strategic depth’ is a land mass about 100 kilometers wide, from the Mediterranean sea to the Jordan river. It is a necessity, not luxury. Anything else is a bonus.

A) “a state that actually fights its enemies” - apparently does not mean what I took it to mean.
B) I assume that the Arabs will be more aggressive towards a small little Israel alone (strategic depth or not), than against Israel allied to superpower America. I assume that if Israel abandons America the Arab nations will strengthen their alliances with America. Cut power supply to the water pumps and throw the control rods off a cliff, Chernobyl happens.
C) There are Israelli troops on the Jordan River today and you have an alliance with America today. Both of these strengthen Israel and you are telling me you need to abandon the alliance with America and break negotiations to achieve a strategic depth you already have - what the? I had assumed by strategic depth you meant - the Sinai, south Lebanon and the eastern side of the valley at a minimum. But if the existing 100 km is all you want it makes even less sense to abandon the alliance.
PS - Hitler was defeated only in alliance with America and the Danes could not have done it by themselves even if with greater strategic depth.

unaha-closp — The Danes did not have the capability to nuke Berlin, Munich and Vienna. We know, and the Muslims know, what targets would be hit, if necessary.

Though I am a proud American, Hitler defeated himself by invading Russia. He would have lost even if the US had stayed out(but the Brits would have been hurting, and whatever was left of Europe would be Communist). The level of Hitler’s insanity can’t be comprehended — evil, for sure, but did he intend to lose? Unanswerable. Thus with Ahmedinijahd. We cannot apply even the lessons of pathological psychology to those who are dedicated to bringing about the Apocalypse.

There is no need to break alliance beween the US and Israel. The people running the government of the US have no testicles. But those of the men of the US are larger than coconuts. If the Israelis use just normal sized ones, in their own interests, the US government will do nothing to stop them, for fear of its own citizens. When it comes down, it will not be a prolonged conflict. “Sanctions” will not have enough time to mean anything.

Clearly, Unaha, you don’t know the state that Israel is in right now. Sure, if we had the land mass of Texas, filled with a homogenic Jewish population, then there was no need to consider any violent approach.
But in reality Samaria, Judaea, the Galilee, the Negev… Virtually all of Israel is infested with Arabs, which are not loyal at best, or at war with us at worst.
In practice, as Obadiah stated, Israel is being reduced to an 8 mile wide beach-strip. Even that would have been acceptable, if that beach-strip was not besieged by countless enemies - Diplomatically, economically, and militarily.

The alliance will not be abandoned by Israel. If the US government insists on the destruction of Israel out of some major error of judgement, then there are other countries in the world to ally with. That, on the other hand, is very unlikely - for the reasons that I already explained.
The Arabs are just as aggressive as they can be, because, unlike Israel, they do not fear the west. They are waging their unholy war anyways. Aggression levels will not change, since the US does not act as a deterrent to small groups, or to the Russian backed Iranians, and the North-Korean backed Syrians. So, once again - there is no peace, the Arabs aren’t peaceful, and they are not pulling back any punches. If Iran will get into war with the US, it will be over the gulf oil anyways, not because of Israel. Wether Israel will pursue regional dominance over frightful obedience to its ‘master’, will only benefit the American army.

In fantasy land, Israel is the Aggressor, Islam is a religion of peace, and pixie beams create happiness for all. Secluded islands with no apparent enemies can believe in fantasy land. People living in Israel cannot afford it.

Joseph: Can you provide your e-mail or a link to it, so we can exchange some thoughts?

Erick, “The alliance will not be abandoned by Israel.” Good. I had disagreed with Danny the admin saying: “The problem is, the cooperation with the US cannot be improved, but abandoned.”, but with you I have only minor disagreement.

Erick S — I’ve asked Danny to forward my e-mail address to you.

Well, minor disagreements are much better than major disagreements, because they don’t tend to end with a nuclear mushroom