Firepower support of religion

Biblical arguments for taking over the Land of Israel do not hold. Abraham and Joshua received specific divine instructions to take the land, which implies that the Jews should only settle the land after a revelation. The Bible never deals with return from the second exile; prophesies of return from Babylonian exile are long realized and now moot. Rabbinical tradition, questionable as it is, discusses the return only in apocalyptical context.

The Bible promises Jews the land, but why believe the promise is fulfilled right now? Jews already thought so during the reign of Julian and when we conquered the land in association with Persians. Victories in the three major wars look like a miracle, but we never know. Joshua received clearer sign at Jericho.

We want the Land of Israel for the entirely rational reason: Jews want to live alone, apart from Jew-haters. Certainly, without Arabs. In the country with defensible borders and depth of defense. With moderate historical and religious connection. And we have enough weapons to realize these goals.

ehud

you are not talking facts!
israeli people want peace and harmony! and there was times where jews and arabs lived together in peace…

but when palestinians shoot and exploding israel need to defend herself!

im an israeli…i was a soldier.. and i can tell you black on white! we dont want to live alone. dont want to live in hate. we only want peace and quite. but the arabs dont want to make peace… they are talking about lands and teritors, they want us to give…but they only willing to recive!
im the little jewish man only want t live in peace…and i know the little arab man want to live in peace… the govermants of both the arabs and israelis are the problem!
donts say “all the jews are like that”.. beacuse that will only show that your talking from the mucsle and not from the mind!

we all humans! arabs and jews! we all want lo live! and we all want to be happy! instead of publish hate, promot love and bridge between the two groups!

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chaim

Well Ovadiah, your article is reasonable, just some thoughts inspired by.
I think a clear case of divine intervention happened during the Six days War. The scenario is a typical biblical one. israel surrounded by hostile armies willing to destroy it, in a Gedeon style story. When the IAF took off to bomb the Egyptians, Jordan radars saw the planes and transmitted the info to Egypt. But a day before the attack the Jordanians changed the encrypting code, thus the Egyptians were not able to decipher the message, and prepare for the attack. Of course, the objetives of the six days war were very different to the last war.
Maybe the jewish want to live in Israel but not because the isolation, but just to be in harmony with our G-d, in the land he gave to us and keeping our laws?

Anonymous

Time to grow out of the mythological Bronze Age, and realize that God produces miracles through people, who are his greatest miracle.

Erick S

It is the Jews mostly, who want to have some divine support for their decision to live here. Other nations would respect the will backed up by firepower.
Americans don’t claim that they are in America because god wanted them to be. But god have mercy on whoever tries to drive them out of their lands.

yoni

why do I continue to see G-d…why are people afraid to evoke the Name of God? For the Love of God…do it…or soon the Name of God will be replaced by allah…no? is it disrespectful?
And why do Israelis want live alone?
…just because of Jew haters? …there are every kind of haters…everywhere…no one can get away from it and why would you want to be isolated? We want you to be inclusive and I can’t apologize for all the injustice you’ve suffered since the beginning of time…because time is not the factor…communication is the want and needs to be addressed…get over the hurt…you’re the smartest people on Earth.
each time someone who comes from outside Israel and tries to reach in by reaching out…how long does it take you to respond or to give a little? I can’t ask for your trust because the first rule is never trust anyone…yet one must never stop trying. please…we need you to teach us

There’s just one problem - The hatred didn’t step. Just like French, English and Americans need a safe haven in their own country from hostiles, so do the Jews.
And because the hatred is still full-fledged, it is not something to ‘get over’. You get over your past - not your present and threats to your future. For those you prepare to the best of your ability, no?
We don’t say the entire world hates us, but there are enough powerful countries out there who would like us all dead. To me this justifies an isolationist state.

BTW I too think that G-d thing is ridiculous. It is more disrespectful than using the actual name (God not being the full name!) because it assumes the creature is easily fooled.

Whoops, that should have been ’stop’ not ’step’ in the beginning, and ‘creator’ not ‘creature’ in the end. Shows you what lack of sleep causes

Too bad I can’t edit it…

ahmadijan

u r sooo fucking stupid!
the land of israel should belong only to the jews. the jewish people have already givin the arab countries much of their land , such as AZZAH. im muslim but i understand how stupid and irresponsible the muslim people are.
we r takeing more and more land from the jews, without even understanding that the torah gave them this land and that it is THEIRS ONLY!
we already have a huge land, we dont need to take land from the jews!!!!!!!

JEWS ROCK!!!

biblical arguments
and religious arguments in general
do not hold.
on anything.

Aharon

“Jews want to live alone?”

Sounds like an outdated European ghetto mentality to me. I will speak for myself as a Jew - and I’m sure many feel the same way. I want to live in the Jewish homeland - in Israel - not necessarily separate from all Arabs and all non-Jews, but in my own land (Which we now have).

Israel has shown its borders to me more the defensible, you cannot continue to attempt to justify an extremist expansionist ideology under the pretext of security while we possess 200 nuclear bombs - enough to both deter and destroy, should it come to that.

Moshe Posner

That’s alright. There’s no end of silliness in your original comment anyway. Like “the G-d thing.” Why stop now? Please, do continue.

Danny the Admin

To Aharon: Isolation is not a ghetto mentality but the fundamental Jewish concept. Beacon has to be isolated.

What makes Israel your land? Jews never owned those beaches in the entire history. Jewish land is Judea, not Tel Aviv.
Arabs, too, don’t consider that land yours.
You can as well live among more amenable Gentiles in Canada. Israel is no more Jewish country than Canada. Not more Jew-friendly.

Israeli nuclear bombs didn’t deter Hamas and Hezbollah.

Israeli nuclear bombs don’t deter a cockroach, because Israel wouldn’t dare to show any sign of strength, out of fear of being thought of as strong, while at the same time claiming to be strong, when its enemies clearly see its weakness.
The world is full of irony.

Alberto

The land set aside for God’s people, is not set aside for a safe haven. God’s people are just that, God’s people, set aside as work men. In a world polluted by sin. Safe haven is an attribute of doing the Most High’s will. When we work for His Will, leaning not to our own understandings we opporate in love. As long as there is sin around there is work to be done. Negative+negative equals success for the evil one. Those who persecute us are not our enemies. It is the enemy of God and the ememy of man, that they serve.