Comments on: Don’t fear peace with Syria http://samsonblinded.org/blog/dont-fear-peace-with-syria.htm A Machiavellian Perspective on the Middle East Conflict Thu, 02 Feb 2012 06:09:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Danny the Admin http://samsonblinded.org/blog/dont-fear-peace-with-syria.htm/comment-page-1#comment-113199 Danny the Admin Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:01:34 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/dont-fear-peace-with-syria.htm#comment-113199 Indeed, such use of force as described here would not be systematic. Israel has to use force systematically for decades because the government lacks the guts for sufficient force. Indeed, such use of force as described here would not be systematic. Israel has to use force systematically for decades because the government lacks the guts for sufficient force.

]]> By: citizen of the world http://samsonblinded.org/blog/dont-fear-peace-with-syria.htm/comment-page-1#comment-113189 citizen of the world Tue, 15 Sep 2009 07:28:05 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/dont-fear-peace-with-syria.htm#comment-113189 "get Israeli tanks into Damascus, and bomb Syrian towns daily until the enemy surrenders" What on earth could be the point of doing this for Israel ? I agree with you that peace treaties should not be trusted and should not be signed in exchange for dangerous territorial concessions, but why the warmongering ? Just watch your borders closely but why launch a war against Syria ? You claim a Machiavellian perspective, but Machiavel did not advocate a systematic use of force, on the contrary... “get Israeli tanks into Damascus, and bomb Syrian towns daily until the enemy surrenders”
What on earth could be the point of doing this for Israel ?
I agree with you that peace treaties should not be trusted and should not be signed in exchange for dangerous territorial concessions, but why the warmongering ? Just watch your borders closely but why launch a war against Syria ?
You claim a Machiavellian perspective, but Machiavel did not advocate a systematic use of force, on the contrary…

]]> By: progressoverpeace http://samsonblinded.org/blog/dont-fear-peace-with-syria.htm/comment-page-1#comment-93144 progressoverpeace Mon, 26 May 2008 07:00:35 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/dont-fear-peace-with-syria.htm#comment-93144 My point was that the 4th Geneva Conventions declared illegal all tactics of war that would be needed to force any reasonably decent foe into unconditional surrender. Of course, no law stops any side from surrendering unconditionally, but that rarely happens unless the correct sort of pressure is applied, and that sort of pressure is illegal under the 4th Geneva Conventions. More directly to the point, though, the 4th Geneva Conventions don't allow for land to be taken as the price of one side's warring (a price that needs to be extracted), which means that the Geneva Conventions don't allow any unconditional surrender if that includes having land taken by the victor. My point was that the 4th Geneva Conventions declared illegal all tactics of war that would be needed to force any reasonably decent foe into unconditional surrender. Of course, no law stops any side from surrendering unconditionally, but that rarely happens unless the correct sort of pressure is applied, and that sort of pressure is illegal under the 4th Geneva Conventions.

More directly to the point, though, the 4th Geneva Conventions don’t allow for land to be taken as the price of one side’s warring (a price that needs to be extracted), which means that the Geneva Conventions don’t allow any unconditional surrender if that includes having land taken by the victor.

]]> By: Danny the Admin http://samsonblinded.org/blog/dont-fear-peace-with-syria.htm/comment-page-1#comment-93140 Danny the Admin Mon, 26 May 2008 06:37:22 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/dont-fear-peace-with-syria.htm#comment-93140 Uh, I don't know if the Fourth Convention is interpreted that wide. It precludes unconditional surrender only insofar as it allocates the civilians and POWs generous rights. But other than bluntly mistreating them, a surrender can still be unconditional. Uh, I don’t know if the Fourth Convention is interpreted that wide. It precludes unconditional surrender only insofar as it allocates the civilians and POWs generous rights. But other than bluntly mistreating them, a surrender can still be unconditional.

]]> By: progressoverpeace http://samsonblinded.org/blog/dont-fear-peace-with-syria.htm/comment-page-1#comment-93089 progressoverpeace Sun, 25 May 2008 20:08:41 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/dont-fear-peace-with-syria.htm#comment-93089 <blockquote>Then impose on Syrians demilitarization, and live happily striking them again upon any attempt to build an army. That’s the only true peace, through unconditional surrender. </blockquote> Exactly. Unfortunately, unconditional surrender was outlawed in the 4th Geneva Conventions (which is why the US has not won a land war since WWII) which guarantees the world continuing instability. Israel has seen a new war every decade since its inception, and one would think that the idea would start to sink in that something has to be changed. Never having forced any sort of surrender on its enemies (let alone unconditional surrender) might be a good place for a reasonable person to start looking. Israel is still too scared of the world's response and too bound by feelings of Jewish guilt. As I used to often hear, "What you propose is probably correct, but I don't want to be around if it has to be done."

Then impose on Syrians demilitarization, and live happily striking them again upon any attempt to build an army. That’s the only true peace, through unconditional surrender.

Exactly.
Unfortunately, unconditional surrender was outlawed in the 4th Geneva Conventions (which is why the US has not won a land war since WWII) which guarantees the world continuing instability.
Israel has seen a new war every decade since its inception, and one would think that the idea would start to sink in that something has to be changed. Never having forced any sort of surrender on its enemies (let alone unconditional surrender) might be a good place for a reasonable person to start looking.

Israel is still too scared of the world’s response and too bound by feelings of Jewish guilt. As I used to often hear, “What you propose is probably correct, but I don’t want to be around if it has to be done.”

]]> By: Shiloh http://samsonblinded.org/blog/dont-fear-peace-with-syria.htm/comment-page-1#comment-93054 Shiloh Sun, 25 May 2008 12:57:09 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/dont-fear-peace-with-syria.htm#comment-93054 Is this part of the smoke screen? The only other thing, is that when the self hating frankists are not seeing Israel dismantled quickly enough, they start investigations etc, then the political leaders quickly begin to shift the focus to land give aways/'peace' to get them off their backs. The mainstream media was having reports this weekend with "Jews" in the Golan ready to vacate for "peace". It's hard to believe anything anymore, such a discrace. ================================= DEBKAfile’s Washington sources report that the Bush administration is “reassessing” its relations with Jerusalem over Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert’s decision to embark on peace talks with Syria through Turkish mediators. One US official called the move a “slap in the face” two weeks after President George Bush declared that America stood by Israel in opposing negotiations with “terrorists and radicals.” Our sources report fears that Israel may find some of the benefits of America’s closest regional ally withheld for the remainder of Bush’s term in office – direct dialogue between the White House and prime minister’s office, intelligence-sharing, diplomatic coordination on Middle East strategy and other urgent business. Israel’s defense establishment and military high command are concerned about possible delays in the flow of essential supplies of equipment. Olmert’s close aides, especially those involved in the peace talks with Syria, may no longer enjoy a warm top-level welcome in Washington. According to a US official, who asked to remain unnamed, the decision to cool ties with Jerusalem followed the discovery by American agents in Turkey that Olmert’s senior advisers, Yoram Turbovich and Shalom Turjeman, and a Syrian delegation arrived in Istanbul for indirect peace talks. The two delegations stayed at the same hotel for three days and a Turkish go-between shuttled between their rooms. Since 2003, it has been administration policy to isolate Syria and boycott its top officials for facilitating the flow of terrorists into Iraq, its efforts to destabilize the pro-Western Lebanese government and its close ties with Iran. The Americans were particularly displeased when they discovered the identity of the Syrian negotiators: Riyad Dadawi, legal adviser to the foreign ministry and president Bashar Assad’s strategist for the UN-sponsored probe and future trial in the 2005 murder of former Lebanese prime minister Rafiq Hariri; and the colonel who liaises for the Syrian army with Iran’s Revolutionary Guards and the Lebanese Hizballah terrorists. Three days after Jerusalem, Damascus and Ankara announced that peace talks had begun, the Syrian defense minister Hassan Turkmani landed in Tehran to boost military ties with Iran. The American official commented dryly that if the Olmert government is prepared to consort with such characters, it should not be surprised by the administration’s Is this part of the smoke screen? The only other thing, is that when the self hating frankists are not seeing Israel dismantled quickly enough, they start investigations etc, then the political leaders quickly begin to shift the focus to land give aways/’peace’ to get them off their backs. The mainstream media was having reports this weekend with “Jews” in the Golan ready to vacate for “peace”. It’s hard to believe anything anymore, such a discrace.
=================================
DEBKAfile’s Washington sources report that the Bush administration is “reassessing” its relations with Jerusalem over Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert’s decision to embark on peace talks with Syria through Turkish mediators. One US official called the move a “slap in the face” two weeks after President George Bush declared that America stood by Israel in opposing negotiations with “terrorists and radicals.”

Our sources report fears that Israel may find some of the benefits of America’s closest regional ally withheld for the remainder of Bush’s term in office – direct dialogue between the White House and prime minister’s office, intelligence-sharing, diplomatic coordination on Middle East strategy and other urgent business. Israel’s defense establishment and military high command are concerned about possible delays in the flow of essential supplies of equipment. Olmert’s close aides, especially those involved in the peace talks with Syria, may no longer enjoy a warm top-level welcome in Washington.

According to a US official, who asked to remain unnamed, the decision to cool ties with Jerusalem followed the discovery by American agents in Turkey that Olmert’s senior advisers, Yoram Turbovich and Shalom Turjeman, and a Syrian delegation arrived in Istanbul for indirect peace talks. The two delegations stayed at the same hotel for three days and a Turkish go-between shuttled between their rooms.

Since 2003, it has been administration policy to isolate Syria and boycott its top officials for facilitating the flow of terrorists into Iraq, its efforts to destabilize the pro-Western Lebanese government and its close ties with Iran.

The Americans were particularly displeased when they discovered the identity of the Syrian negotiators: Riyad Dadawi, legal adviser to the foreign ministry and president Bashar Assad’s strategist for the UN-sponsored probe and future trial in the 2005 murder of former Lebanese prime minister Rafiq Hariri; and the colonel who liaises for the Syrian army with Iran’s Revolutionary Guards and the Lebanese Hizballah terrorists.

Three days after Jerusalem, Damascus and Ankara announced that peace talks had begun, the Syrian defense minister Hassan Turkmani landed in Tehran to boost military ties with Iran.

The American official commented dryly that if the Olmert government is prepared to consort with such characters, it should not be surprised by the administration’s

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