Comments on: Deviate, but quietly http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm A Machiavellian Perspective on the Middle East Conflict Thu, 02 Feb 2012 06:09:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm/comment-page-1#comment-109317 Anonymous Wed, 29 Oct 2008 06:35:40 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm#comment-109317 Leviticus 20:13 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society 13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. Leviticus 20:13 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

13 ” ‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

]]> By: Anonymous http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm/comment-page-1#comment-109316 Anonymous Wed, 29 Oct 2008 06:33:50 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm#comment-109316 Some people are born Disabled too! Should we not try to cure them? Being born a certain way does not mean its natural. Being left handed is not a mental disability, being gay is! Your mind doesn’t work in the natural manner that was intended! That’s why I don’t expect you too understand! Leviticus 20:13 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society 13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. Some people are born Disabled too! Should we not try to cure them? Being born a certain way does not mean its natural. Being left handed is not a mental disability, being gay is! Your mind doesn’t work in the natural manner that was intended! That’s why I don’t expect you too understand!

Leviticus 20:13 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

13 ” ‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

]]> By: Melech Adam http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm/comment-page-1#comment-43782 Melech Adam Sun, 08 Jul 2007 14:06:49 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm#comment-43782 If the Arabs were treated by the govement of Israel as they treat the jews with police actions as they did to Maih Sharim. Or what they did in gush katiff and shomron. They would leave. If they were imprisoned for incitement for wearing a t shirt or no reason at all they would leave, or all be in prison. When at the mausk they spew out the hatred of jews. If the goverment would arrest them all as the would any jewish group that would speak in such a way. Most arabs leave or be in prison. But this is only for the jews. Intead the goverment lets arab murderers and terrorests free for no reason except to commit more terror, fire rockets. This is really sick. How much damage will it take till ? If the Arabs were treated by the govement of Israel as they treat the jews with police actions as they did to Maih Sharim. Or what they did in gush katiff and shomron. They would leave. If they were imprisoned for incitement for wearing a t shirt or no reason at all they would leave, or all be in prison. When at the mausk they spew out the hatred of jews. If the goverment would arrest them all as the would any jewish group that would speak in such a way. Most arabs leave or be in prison. But this is only for the jews. Intead the goverment lets arab murderers and terrorests free for no reason except to commit more terror, fire rockets. This is really sick. How much damage will it take till ?

]]> By: Danny the Admin http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm/comment-page-1#comment-43763 Danny the Admin Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:03:31 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm#comment-43763 Is there any state on the earth which established itself by means other than violence? Canada is safer than Israel. What makes you stay in the middle of 200 million Arabs, if Israel is only a matter of safety? In fact, Israel is one of the most dangerous states to live in, far from being a safe haven. Banishing Arabs from the Jewish state makes us good Jews, for the Torah - totally in accordance with the common sense - prescribes to expel the aliens. Why would the Arabs willingly migrate from Israel which pays them subsidies, doesn't conscript them, asks for no taxes, gives them jobs, and tolerates their crime and illegal construction? On the positive side, you want a Jewish state without Arabs. That makes two of us. Now ask yourself: would the Arabs willingly move out from the ethnic-blind Israel? could a state that includes 34% of Arabs in the younger age group be called Jewish? what is a Jewish state? was any state ever established through tolerance to aborigines? Is there any state on the earth which established itself by means other than violence?
Canada is safer than Israel. What makes you stay in the middle of 200 million Arabs, if Israel is only a matter of safety? In fact, Israel is one of the most dangerous states to live in, far from being a safe haven.
Banishing Arabs from the Jewish state makes us good Jews, for the Torah – totally in accordance with the common sense – prescribes to expel the aliens.
Why would the Arabs willingly migrate from Israel which pays them subsidies, doesn’t conscript them, asks for no taxes, gives them jobs, and tolerates their crime and illegal construction?
On the positive side, you want a Jewish state without Arabs. That makes two of us. Now ask yourself: would the Arabs willingly move out from the ethnic-blind Israel? could a state that includes 34% of Arabs in the younger age group be called Jewish? what is a Jewish state? was any state ever established through tolerance to aborigines?

]]> By: Melech Adam http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm/comment-page-1#comment-43762 Melech Adam Sun, 08 Jul 2007 10:58:00 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm#comment-43762 When someone says "It’s enough to make me lose faith in G-d when it is the most allegedly RELIGIOUS people who URGE the marginalization of gay people. They really have no faith in God, as True faith "emuna" can't be lost. It is a matter involving the God. People can't effect the relationship, when its based on truth. Then their are those who want to deny the truth. The truth which they dont have even a hint of wisdom or experience concerning or they would not be in risk of loosing their "faith ? ". They also would not need to parade around their strange behavior. If they did not have some kind of internal emotional problem. For the sake of democracy liberty and freedom of expresion why not have a parade of pedifiles if both consent, and also with dead animals. Whose to say these things are wrong also, except the truth found in our hearts. However deep it may be burried and The words of the living Go-d.But if you stand with weak faith, you cant see more than moses saw, and know impurity blinds one's heart and their mind. Before they know it the most abomitable thing become permitted. Lets keep Jeruslem Pure and Holy ! When someone says “It’s enough to make me lose faith in G-d when it is the most allegedly RELIGIOUS people who URGE the marginalization of gay people.

They really have no faith in God, as True faith “emuna” can’t be lost. It is a matter involving the God. People can’t effect the relationship, when its based on truth. Then their are those who want to deny the truth. The truth which they dont have even a hint of wisdom or experience concerning or they would not be in risk of loosing their “faith ? “.
They also would not need to parade around their strange behavior. If they did not have some kind of internal emotional problem. For the sake of democracy liberty and freedom of expresion why not have a parade of pedifiles if both consent, and also with dead animals. Whose to say these things are wrong also, except the truth found in our hearts. However deep it may be burried and The words of the living Go-d.But if you stand with weak faith, you cant see more than moses saw, and know impurity blinds one’s heart and their mind. Before they know it the most abomitable thing become permitted.
Lets keep Jeruslem Pure and Holy !

]]> By: Jonathan http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm/comment-page-1#comment-43750 Jonathan Sun, 08 Jul 2007 09:14:55 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm#comment-43750 Danny, whether you choose to define the "others" culturally or racially makes no real difference to me (or to you, for that matter). "Jordan makes a nice reservation for them" > thank you for illustrating my point! The way you shamelessly side youself with the horrific acts or ethnic, (OK,OK. Cultural) segregation and murder by the original european settlers of America and Australia is, in my view, a warped approach to the roll we should play in Israel. My pride in being Jewish is that we are have been refugees for over two millennia, who managed to survive, and need this country first and foremost as a safe haven from our persecutors. Are we to be the persecutors in our own country, banishing people who's grandparents were born here to the neighbouring countries because we consider them to be "cultural aliens"? What does that make of us? And just for the record, I share the same fantasy as most Israelis: that most arabs and Palestinians will migrate from Israel to arab countries. It's just not something we can morally act towards as Jews. Danny, whether you choose to define the “others” culturally or racially makes no real difference to me (or to you, for that matter). “Jordan makes a nice reservation for them” > thank you for illustrating my point! The way you shamelessly side youself with the horrific acts or ethnic, (OK,OK. Cultural) segregation and murder by the original european settlers of America and Australia is, in my view, a warped approach to the roll we should play in Israel. My pride in being Jewish is that we are have been refugees for over two millennia, who managed to survive, and need this country first and foremost as a safe haven from our persecutors. Are we to be the persecutors in our own country, banishing people who’s grandparents were born here to the neighbouring countries because we consider them to be “cultural aliens”? What does that make of us?

And just for the record, I share the same fantasy as most Israelis: that most arabs and Palestinians will migrate from Israel to arab countries. It’s just not something we can morally act towards as Jews.

]]> By: Danny the Admin http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm/comment-page-1#comment-43739 Danny the Admin Sun, 08 Jul 2007 07:40:45 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm#comment-43739 Jonathan, the article refers to cultural rather than ethnic aliens. America's famous melting pot historically assimilated ethnic aliens, but the current policy of multiculturalism saturates the society with cultural aliens. It's about cultural homogeneity, not racial purity. Jews in the Land of Israel are rather the European settlers (in the American parallel). The Arabs are Indian aborigines, and Jordan makes a nice reservation for them. Jonathan, the article refers to cultural rather than ethnic aliens. America’s famous melting pot historically assimilated ethnic aliens, but the current policy of multiculturalism saturates the society with cultural aliens. It’s about cultural homogeneity, not racial purity.
Jews in the Land of Israel are rather the European settlers (in the American parallel). The Arabs are Indian aborigines, and Jordan makes a nice reservation for them.

]]> By: Danny the Admin http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm/comment-page-1#comment-43738 Danny the Admin Sun, 08 Jul 2007 07:34:46 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm#comment-43738 Bill, we believe in every line of the Torah. The problem is, many people misread it. There is no commandment to murder gays. They must be expelled from Jewish community (caret) and only if there are witnesses to their sexual actions. The idea is that gays violate public purity and the community should be kept clean. Thus, I have no problem with gay parades in San Francisco - just not in Jerusalem. Here you're right that gay movements are unnecessarily obnoxious. Few people in Israel object to gay presence in our society, but pushing with the parades and gay marriages is too much. Judaism is not about democracy, but, again, purity. The same was true of the original American democracy: recall that super-liberal Penn's colony offered unhindered freedom to everyone who believes in God, not anyone else. Violent protests in Jerusalem are aimed not really against the gay march per se, but rather against desecration of the holy city. You can see that protesters pushed not against gays, but for sanctity of the city. They are defenders, not attackers. Bill, we believe in every line of the Torah. The problem is, many people misread it. There is no commandment to murder gays. They must be expelled from Jewish community (caret) and only if there are witnesses to their sexual actions. The idea is that gays violate public purity and the community should be kept clean. Thus, I have no problem with gay parades in San Francisco – just not in Jerusalem. Here you’re right that gay movements are unnecessarily obnoxious. Few people in Israel object to gay presence in our society, but pushing with the parades and gay marriages is too much.
Judaism is not about democracy, but, again, purity. The same was true of the original American democracy: recall that super-liberal Penn’s colony offered unhindered freedom to everyone who believes in God, not anyone else.
Violent protests in Jerusalem are aimed not really against the gay march per se, but rather against desecration of the holy city. You can see that protesters pushed not against gays, but for sanctity of the city. They are defenders, not attackers.

]]> By: Bill http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm/comment-page-1#comment-43709 Bill Sun, 08 Jul 2007 01:08:57 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm#comment-43709 Danny I appreciate that you recognize the conflict among those who believe absolutely in every piece of the bible/torah and those whose everyday observations note the problems inherent in that worldview. I understand there is simply no point in arguing w/ someone whose view is based on faith alone in the Bible. Which is why your creative compromises are so intruguing to me. I personally find "dont ask dont tell" noxious and harmful, but less harmful than.. say.. the biblical mandate to murder gay men... I also think that in a democracy people may be permited to demonstrate any point of view except to advocate violence. But I certainly see how difficult and offensive it can be for those whose views are formed by the bible to accept a gay march in Jerusalem. I think the gays who march in Jerusalem have the right to do so, but must consider the wisdom of doing so. If equal rights are the goal then one must consider how to reach out to those on the fence. Offending fence sitters is not the answer. I believe the solution is an education outreach and public diologue w/ different communities. The gay rights movement has largely failed miserably in this area. It must decide to bring light to the topic, and NOT HEAT. On the other hand, I find unacceptable the violent protests against the march. A PEACEFUL protest against the gay march is certainly fine and healthy for any democratic nation w/ free speech. All views must be aired. In such a situation I have faith that the truth and a more equitable situation will gradually emerge. Danny

I appreciate that you recognize the conflict among those who believe absolutely in every piece of the bible/torah and those whose everyday observations note the problems inherent in that worldview.

I understand there is simply no point in arguing w/ someone whose view is based on faith alone in the Bible. Which is why your creative compromises are so intruguing to me.

I personally find “dont ask dont tell” noxious and harmful, but less harmful than.. say.. the biblical mandate to murder gay men…
I also think that in a democracy people may be permited to demonstrate any point of view except to advocate violence. But I certainly see how difficult and offensive it can be for those whose views are formed by the bible to accept a gay march in Jerusalem. I think the gays who march in Jerusalem have the right to do so, but must consider the wisdom of doing so. If equal rights are the goal then one must consider how to reach out to those on the fence. Offending fence sitters is not the answer. I believe the solution is an education outreach and public diologue w/ different communities. The gay rights movement has largely failed miserably in this area. It must decide to bring light to the topic, and NOT HEAT.
On the other hand, I find unacceptable the violent protests against the march. A PEACEFUL protest against the gay march is certainly fine and healthy for any democratic nation w/ free speech. All views must be aired. In such a situation I have faith that the truth and a more equitable situation will gradually emerge.

]]> By: Jonathan http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm/comment-page-1#comment-43690 Jonathan Sat, 07 Jul 2007 21:34:20 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/deviate-but-quietly.htm#comment-43690 "Americans build complicated enterprises but fail to understand complex international relations. Israelis slide the same direction." True, but the direction we should take is towards understanding the OTHER culture so as to minimize the violent frictions with it. The less we understand the cultures we are currently at war with, the farther the end of the struggle will be (see: Iraq). "Today, the US cities look like intergalactic airports, swarming with aliens. Small faraway towns and to a degree the South retained the original American ideology: tolerant, but not permissive beyond the common sense." I just can't wrap my mind around this. What are you actually suggesting? That the U.S should act to keep their cities "racially pure"? "swarming with aliens" - PLEASE! What right do Americans have to declare a tough anti-alien policy after the way their country was conquered, by the merciless murdering of millions of their native inhabitants? That is the premise of your so-called "American Ideoligy". That is what "failure to understand complex international relations" leads to. There's no denying that freedom and prosperity is not what stands at the foundation of the U.S.A. It's war for natural resources. Plain and simple. From over 200 years ago, till today. So we'd better start using our famous jewish intellect and learn how keep our borders quiet (once we determine what they are), because according to you, in the land of Israel, we're the indians. “Americans build complicated enterprises but fail to understand complex international relations. Israelis slide the same direction.”

True, but the direction we should take is towards understanding the OTHER culture so as to minimize the violent frictions with it. The less we understand the cultures we are currently at war with, the farther the end of the struggle will be (see: Iraq).

“Today, the US cities look like intergalactic airports, swarming with aliens. Small faraway towns and to a degree the South retained the original American ideology: tolerant, but not permissive beyond the common sense.”

I just can’t wrap my mind around this. What are you actually suggesting? That the U.S should act to keep their cities “racially pure”? “swarming with aliens” – PLEASE! What right do Americans have to declare a tough anti-alien policy after the way their country was conquered, by the merciless murdering of millions of their native inhabitants? That is the premise of your so-called “American Ideoligy”. That is what “failure to understand complex international relations” leads to.
There’s no denying that freedom and prosperity is not what stands at the foundation of the U.S.A. It’s war for natural resources. Plain and simple. From over 200 years ago, till today.

So we’d better start using our famous jewish intellect and learn how keep our borders quiet (once we determine what they are), because according to you, in the land of Israel, we’re the indians.

]]>