OF COURSE the question of who’s INVADER here is of UTMOST importance. It’s the single most devastating charge laid against the Jewish presence (let alone governance) in the Land of Israel. The situation is so bad, they’ve got Westerners to use Arabic names now, for Temple Mount, etc.

And of course the MAJOR problem on the inside is precisely that HALF of the Jews in Israel have bought into this Pali narrative of us being invaders in our own Homeland. It is the JEWS of Israel (on the left) who need the convincing the MOST.

Without conviction in your RIGHT there can be no victory.

This Israeli right’s abandonment of the poor idiots on the left (however powerful and overbearing they are in their silencing and quashing the right, still…) is precisely what’s wrong with the nice and beautiful settlers movement — in the end, it is not enough just to sit there on the hills, the most important job NOT DONE was to convince the left to be more Jewish. The hasbara effort among the left was always NONE-existent, as all the efforts were diverted into the settlement itself.

Now the morons of the left are in charge (for the last 15 years if not more), and convinced in the Palestinian Rights over this Land. Job nicely done.

Samson Blinded asks why Jews cannot be as good as Arabs ?

http://kashmiri-nomad.blogspot.com/2007/12/islam-and-west-accelerated-links-for-30.html

We don’t need to call the lying murderers “aborigines” when they are in fact nothing of the sort. We surely don’t need to bolster their false propaganda, they have enough support without us as it is.

We are the most ancient people claiming this Land with the most conviction… I mean, we ought to be. To lay my claim to this Land is most certainly CONTRARY to calling some foreign murderous lying cheating plagiarizing invaders “aborigines” of my Land.

Chaim: “Anyway, the bottom line is actual arabs have to go.If jews cannot live in arab countries, why they can live here?”

agreed.

Problem is, the pretentions West would empose blocade and embargo on Israel if it were to try this, branding it “racist” and “fascist” surely. This time with the US support of Security Council Chapter VII binding resolution. In short, b-a-d problems for Israel with the West.

Sometimes I wonder if Israel really got the Bomb or it’s all just a bluff.

Unfortunately not ONLY the petty ones among intellectuals are trapped in the idealistic leftist perspective.
This perspective was a product of positivism, that was still the main intellectual current at the time of Karl Marx. People’s beliefs, values, and behaviors were seen as products. It was also assumed was that people suffer only because the faults of the social system, which was based on the class struggle between the oppressors and the oppressed.
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It is strange that in the arena of politics, academics are still stuck in positivism, while it has all but vanished from modern physics, mathematics, chemistry and biology.
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My point was that in order for Israel to succeed, WE MUST NOT IGNORE the academics. We need to win the academic war, just like Theory of Evolution won over Creationism, and Copernicus over Ptolemy.
Right now we are losing the battle on the university campuses. The place where our future leaders are being prepared.
We need to use a different approach: The old religions have Zero appeal to the young intelligent people.

The problem with academics is they have to prove to themselves that they are more intelligent, by constantly arguing with other people over, oh, just about everything.
While simpler, more honest people are able to work together in order to achieve a common goal, petty intellectuals would rather debate a topic to the ground, bringing things like their nation, and their people, down in the process.

You gotta love the human ego. The more you feed it the worse it gets.

In my opinion, the most important task is to expand the basis of support for Israel to include the Leftists etc. It is important that religious supporters of Israel, realize that they can have great number of non-religious allies who are willing to fight together with them.

The academics have been seduced by the intellectual idealism such as Marxism. It is time to answer this idealism by more realistic theories such as “Game Theory”. If we were to run Israeli politics according to Game Theory, rather than to naive idealism, we would not make all theses concessions.

The only place where this debate matters is if we have to convince ourselves that we should fight for this land.
Aaron has good arguments for fighting, and so does Chaim, so it is all ok.
As long as we’re fighting the enemy, and not each other.