Comments on: Bureaucracy in the small land http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm A Machiavellian Perspective on the Middle East Conflict Thu, 02 Feb 2012 06:09:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Danny the Admin http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82179 Danny the Admin Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:03:01 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm#comment-82179 Again, maybe you're right: exemplary punishment rather than avenging a single death. Again, maybe you’re right: exemplary punishment rather than avenging a single death.

]]> By: LJ http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82177 LJ Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:50:51 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm#comment-82177 From Obadiah: Vengeance is not nice, but it restores righteousness. Does it really matter where the vengeance takes place for it to restore righteousness? Should we not show that hurting a Jew is wrong no matter where it is done in the world? "Without vengeance, wars would become a limited liability affair." Would that not also hold true for crime, especially crimes against Jews? Do our enemies really make a disinction between a Jew in Israel and a Jew in France or Argentina? Hezbollah sure did not see the distinction in 1994 in Buenos Aires. No one says we have to go to the ends of the earth to punish a crime. A few packs of cigarettes or some extra rations of food can get you almost anything you want in prison. That is but one example. Additionally, SOMETIMES things cannot be avoided - bad people do bad things unto you despite precaution or resistance. Such is life. From Obadiah: Vengeance is not nice, but it restores righteousness.

Does it really matter where the vengeance takes place for it to restore righteousness? Should we not show that hurting a Jew is wrong no matter where it is done in the world?

“Without vengeance, wars would become a limited liability affair.” Would that not also hold true for crime, especially crimes against Jews? Do our enemies really make a disinction between a Jew in Israel and a Jew in France or Argentina? Hezbollah sure did not see the distinction in 1994 in Buenos Aires.

No one says we have to go to the ends of the earth to punish a crime. A few packs of cigarettes or some extra rations of food can get you almost anything you want in prison. That is but one example.

Additionally, SOMETIMES things cannot be avoided – bad people do bad things unto you despite precaution or resistance. Such is life.

]]> By: Danny the Admin http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82143 Danny the Admin Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:50:37 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm#comment-82143 From Obadiah: It is incorrect to fish for quotes. You can always find an isolated quote to substantiate anything, that's what reformists do. "Do not STAY at the sight of your brother's blood". "You don't know whose blood is redder." A woman raped in a town is executed if she didn't call for help. That is, we have to help when witnessing a crime, but not go to the ends of the earth to punish a crime, and it is the victim's foremost obligation to avoid the criminal situations and resist the crime. From Obadiah: It is incorrect to fish for quotes. You can always find an isolated quote to substantiate anything, that’s what reformists do.
“Do not STAY at the sight of your brother’s blood”.
“You don’t know whose blood is redder.”
A woman raped in a town is executed if she didn’t call for help.
That is, we have to help when witnessing a crime, but not go to the ends of the earth to punish a crime, and it is the victim’s foremost obligation to avoid the criminal situations and resist the crime.

]]> By: LJ http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82109 LJ Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:47:24 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm#comment-82109 "He who saves one life... it is as if he saves an entire universe. He who destroys a life... it is as if he destroys an entire universe" TALMUD - Sanhedrin 4:5 I don't think it matters where that one life happens to live. “He who saves one life… it is as if he saves an entire universe. He who destroys a life… it is as if he destroys an entire universe”

TALMUD – Sanhedrin 4:5

I don’t think it matters where that one life happens to live.

]]> By: Danny the Admin http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82089 Danny the Admin Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:11:45 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm#comment-82089 Maybe you're right, but there is a huge difference between caring of Holocaust or Soviet Jews where the masses of Jews are involved and a single Jew who willingly endangered his life by living among Gentiles. Maybe you’re right, but there is a huge difference between caring of Holocaust or Soviet Jews where the masses of Jews are involved and a single Jew who willingly endangered his life by living among Gentiles.

]]> By: LJ http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82081 LJ Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:45:35 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm#comment-82081 The Jews in Palestine fought in the Jewish Brigade and special paratrooper units to help their Jewish brothers and sisters in the Shoah in Europe. I think we have a responsibility to eachother that transcends whether someone is in Israel or not. The Jews in Palestine fought in the Jewish Brigade and special paratrooper units to help their Jewish brothers and sisters in the Shoah in Europe. I think we have a responsibility to eachother that transcends whether someone is in Israel or not.

]]> By: LJ http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82080 LJ Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:44:39 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm#comment-82080 Plus, if we don't look after eachother, who else will? Plus, if we don’t look after eachother, who else will?

]]> By: LJ http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82068 LJ Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:06:20 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm#comment-82068 Halimi was in the process of making Aliyah. Halimi was in the process of making Aliyah.

]]> By: Danny the Admin http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm/comment-page-1#comment-82007 Danny the Admin Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:50:11 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm#comment-82007 I find it incredible that somehow two JDL members were murdered in high-security US prisons at different times, but accidentally and with the cameras turned off. Israeli security establishment is notoriously vengeful, so it is entirely plausible that we can draw a straight line through the Israeli murders of R. Meir Kahane - Dr. Baruch Goldstein - R. Benny Kahane - JDL folks. The two last murders were meant to formally end the JDL existence. As for Halimi, I won't bother avenging him. Jews must live in Israel, and whoever lives elsewhere does so at his own risk. I find it incredible that somehow two JDL members were murdered in high-security US prisons at different times, but accidentally and with the cameras turned off.
Israeli security establishment is notoriously vengeful, so it is entirely plausible that we can draw a straight line through the Israeli murders of R. Meir Kahane – Dr. Baruch Goldstein – R. Benny Kahane – JDL folks. The two last murders were meant to formally end the JDL existence.
As for Halimi, I won’t bother avenging him. Jews must live in Israel, and whoever lives elsewhere does so at his own risk.

]]> By: LJ http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm/comment-page-1#comment-81949 LJ Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:39:51 +0000 http://samsonblinded.org/blog/bureaucracy-in-the-small-land.htm#comment-81949 Dan, I am sure Ovadiah talks about it somewhere or at some point, but can you explain why the Israelis cared about Earl Kruger? The JDL has been on a downward spiral for a long time already. I think most American Jews hardly knew what the acronym stood for let alone the group's leaders like Mr. Kruger. Also, do you think the Israelis would ever try to take vengance on Elan Halimi's brutal killers? Dan, I am sure Ovadiah talks about it somewhere or at some point, but can you explain why the Israelis cared about Earl Kruger? The JDL has been on a downward spiral for a long time already. I think most American Jews hardly knew what the acronym stood for let alone the group’s leaders like Mr. Kruger. Also, do you think the Israelis would ever try to take vengance on Elan Halimi’s brutal killers?

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