The one thing I detest more than liberal “rabbis” is racist Jews who speak of vile, underhuman Arabs. On the contrary, Arabs are normal, and in many political and moral respects remind us of how the Jews should behave.
Take Arab rocket attacks on Israel. Few Jews are so contemptuous of Arabs to imagine them stupid to the extent of not recognizing economic benefits of stopping the attacks. Israel would open some crossings, allow some migrant laborers from Gaza, and international aid will increase. The Arabs can get still more aid by ousting Hamas, whose forces constitute, at most, 2% of Gaza’s population. In the place where firearms are abundant, Arabs would have no trouble dethroning Hamas. Gazans are not afraid of Hamas: the people who live for generations in squalid refugee camps under Egyptian, then Israeli oppression, who are used to artillery fire at night, are not afraid of anything. Individual Arabs, yes, they crack easily under interrogation, but Arab masses are fearless.
The only reason that Gazans support the militant factions and withstand Israeli retaliation is the noble feeling of immense hatred to the enemy. They can live peacefully in refugee camps on the UN handouts, but they are willing to suffer in order to return what they consider their homeland, and what is now called, Israel. Gazans did not come from the West Bank; they came from the “core” Jewish cities from Haifa to Jaffa. This is the land which they fight to get back. They don’t fight for Schem or Hebron: those cities are already in Arab hands. They want what the Israelis think is core Israel. And if they cannot get the land now, at least they will continue pounding the Zionist enemy until he gives up.
It might be that the Arabs’ calculations are right. By any measure, Haifa and Jaffa are not Jewish cities; Jews controlled those territories in antiquity only for a very short time. By any measure, Schem and Hebron are Jewish towns: we bought them, conquered them, settled them, had them as our major cities, and have the full-fledged religious right to them. If, therefore, Jews abandoned Schem and Hebron, the Arabs find it completely plausible that Zionists will eventually abandon Haifa and Jaffa. And they are right, Jews keep abandoning those places: Akko is now an Arab town, and Jaffa becomes the one.
So when Gazans shell Israel, they act neither cowardly, nor stupidly, but bravely, shrewdly, and – from their point of view – righteously.
Likewise, Israeli Arabs refuse to integrate, assimilate into the Israeli identity which is so much economically beneficial for them. First, Jews must be eternally grateful to them for doing so. Imagine if Israeli Muslims started acting as good Israelis: learned Hebrew, served in the army, and became nice to Jews. The next thing we would see will be a wave of Jewish assimilation, Jewish women converting to Islam to marry those nice, unobjectionable Arabs. The Arab hostility reminds Jews that something has to be done about the swelling numbers of Israeli Arabs; nice Arabs would be accepted as legitimate voters, breed up to majority, and vote the Jewish state out of existence.
Israeli Arabs refuse assimilating in return for economic benefits. Wait, that’s what the Jews praise themselves with. The good Jews abandon the safety and economic advantages of America and move to Israel. Arabs are smart and rational, or call them cynical: they accept economic benefits from Jews, but refuse to integrate into the Jewish society. Some youngsters are even willing to fight the Jews instead of accepting economic benefits from them, such as higher education; others accept the almost-free education, and then work to subvert the Jewish state by building a parallel Arab society, donating to Islamic charities, and showing solidarity with their Palestinian brethren in the “occupied” territories. In the meantime, Israeli Arabs work to take over Israel by rationally exploiting her democracy, by the mere act of breeding. Sex for them is a political affair. Arabs accept temporary dhimmitude, but lose no chance to further their comeback as the sovereign nation in Palestine.
Arabs don’t want the coexistence with Jews, and wait patiently for the moment when they can drown some Jews and drive away the rest. That is how normal people behave when someone takes over the land they consider theirs. That is why the Torah commands the Jews to fight the natives of Canaan and drive them away, for they would always remember that the land was theirs, and their hostility to Jews will be implacable. Arabs want to drive the Jews away: Arabs resisted the Jews fleeing to Palestine from burning Europe; America and Britain resisted Jewish flight, too. That’s exactly what Jews are commanded to do with respect to Arabs: “For I will give the inhabitants of the land into your hand, and you will expel them” (Exodus 23:31).
Jews love to assert that Arabs claim more land that they actually need or have ever settled, that Jews worked the plains which were no-man’s land. But Jews were commanded to conquer the land from the Red Sea to Mediterranean, and from Nile to Euphrates; that’s also a land that Jews have never settled, and cannot settle with meaningful density. National sovereignty over the land has nothing to do with actually settling it: look at Chinese Himalayas or Russian sub-Arctic.
Arabs are religiously intolerant, they protest when Jews worship at the Temple Mount. If only the Arab example rang a bell in Jews’ minds: “You shall destroy, destroy their deities and break, break their monuments” (Exodus 23:24). Every rabbi with the least trace of honesty would concur that cleansing the Temple Mount from Islamic structures is an immensely important commandment, and every minute of procrastinating in doing so is a grave sin. God granted us a miraculous victory in 1967 for a reason, and what reason can we imagine behind giving Jews sovereignty over the Temple Mount? That’s, of course, if you believe that there is God; for those who evolved from monkeys the implications might be different.
Muslims exert horrendous religious punishments. Saudis sentence rape victims to capital punishment and ban every other religion from their country; Iranians stone adulterers. Liberal Jews have long forgotten their own punishments – which are exactly the same for the very same crimes. But Jews prefer tourism’ income to religious purity, and porn industry tax revenues to morality.
Arabs teach their children violence; at the age of eight, they slaughter sheep. At the age of three, good religious Jewish children start learning the Torah from Leviticus, the section that details sacrifices. Liberal Jews assert that Judaism is non-violent; reading the Torah might change their opinion. The God who told us to slaughter Amalek babies and priests of Baal during their worship, who killed the Egyptian firstborn and ordered us to bring numerous gruesome animal sacrifices, God of the Deluge, pogroms, and Holocaust – he is not a merciful liberal “spirit which is in man.”
Arabs are terrorists. But when Arabs kill Jewish civilians, they act normally – as any normal person does to his hated enemy. Jewish civilians serve in the army, pay taxes which support the army, vote for the governments which keep the territories under “occupation,” and send their sons and daughters to fight the Arabs. Palestinian terrorists don’t seek annihilating the Jews; that’s a task for Arab mobs and armies. The terrorists seek rational political ends, and employ violence only to achieve those ends; such violence is very economical by the standards of warfare. Such violence is extremely efficient in political terms: polls show Israeli support for Palestinian statehood growing after major terrorist acts.
Jewish partisans in Europe during WWII also employed terrorist tactics, and so did ETZEL and LEHI. Forget the fringes; it was the Haganah that carried out Dir Yassin and Kfar Kassem. Israeli army routinely shot POWs in 1967 and more rarely in 1973, and crushed them flat with tank tracks. When given a minimally free hand, IAF bombed Lebanese and Gazan towns with no compunction. Indeed, what compunction could be there to an enemy? The British - the world’s utmost liberals - exhibited a very limited compassion to Dresdners whose women, children, and the old they burned in incendiary raids, hurrah. Jews have a divine guideline in dealing with our sworn enemies, “Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey” (1 Samuel 15:3). God severely punished Saul for merely killing women and children, but not animals. David, likewise but for a different reason, killed all the inhabitants but not animals. You may not like it, but that is Judaism. If you want to be nice, join Tibetan monks; they are not nice, either.
Arabs are suicidal, they send their children to suicide bombings. And Jews were sending their children to senseless risk in Beirut for eighteen years. Arabs, at least, sacrifice their children for political ends; not so the Jews who during the Second Intifada feared for their children day and night but did nothing to stop the Arabs from killing them. No grieving Jewish parent went to Ramallah and blew himself in an Arab bus; a shame. Arabs sacrifice their children for what to them is a noble aim of fighting the Zionist enemy; Jews sacrificed their children to Shimon Peres, the idol of Rabin and his peace process. In the Book of Maccabees, Hannah urges her seven sons to suffer horrible death at the hands of liberal Jews and their Greek masters rather than “merely” eat non-kosher meat. That’s a Jewish mother, that’s Judaism. Compare to Tel Aviv restaurants serving pork.
Of course, Islam is a perversion. Of course, Arabs are wild, primitive, and make worse neighbors than Anthrax bacteria. Of course, the country is ours and we must cleanse it from Arabs by whatever means necessary. But the Arab example offers Jews a valuable insight into what the “normalcy” really is.



Well, interesting article. It's a fair thing to consider arabs as normal human beings. They are just enemy, not less men than us.
Jews of origin should read what our greates king, David, did to Hebrews enemies. Not-so-liberal treatment. And we we talked about David, we mean the golden age of pure Hebrew language and pure life. Good piece of thought. He knew how to deal with them. Whas he a political genius? Not, he was just a righteous shephard.
We have enough of self denomined "saviours" and "geniuses" by now. No strange why the land vomites us out…
Obadiah wrote that it took Begin's simplicity to simply bomb the Iraqi reactor.
One of the greatest strengths, and the greatest weaknesses of the Muslim religion is that the whole of the Koran (i.e. recitals by Mohammed of what God told him) is the "Word of God". In Judaism and Christianity, only the ten commandments were the literal word of God. The word of God cannot be expanded or avoided (like the seven deadly sins:)
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So Christianity and Judaism are open to a more flexible interpretation. Prophets can move into and out of favour, "an eye for an eye" can to some authorities be a generality, to others have limited application.
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A few subjects back, a commentator argued that Arabs would eventually get nuclear, and there would be no stopping, with ABM's, an attack, which might be a nuke in a ship. For every attack he can think up, there is a defense. Recent news reports detailed a UK scientist's breakthrough that allowed any element to be detected through it's heat emission profile. You cam't make a nuke without transuranics, so the technology already exists to combat sneaking a bomb into Israel.
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What scares the shit out of me is the way technology is developing. In a blog I wrote some years ago I suggested that Israeli security should develop a database of everybody. That database would list everyone's friends and family connections, and would utilize visual/auditory/movement recognition software tied in with a network of CCTV and microphones that would permeate the nation (the world??). With such a network, internal terror acts everywhere could be reduced to nada, nothing, zero. Terrorists would be on a watch list before they even thought of becoming terrorists. Nobody would ever be "incognito".
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But what government (including UK, US or Australian) would I trust with such power?
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So I am scared shitless that this whole terrorist fear is a "beat up", something our governments invented, or would have invented if it did not exist, for the purpose of gaining our acceptance during the critical development and installation phases of this technology.
[…] Samson Blinded: I don't know if I completely agree with it but it is very thought provoking and it provides an interesting read. […]
Bar your dead on in the last part of your comment.
Don't think for a second that the US isn't corrupt and hasn't been incubating terrorist organizations in order to facilitate the implementation of a global police state.
Eventually the "west" will turn on the jews, this happens with all godless totalitarian regimes and no doubt will happen with our dear friend the United States, which is looking more and more like a high tech slave gulag everyday.
"That database would list everyone's friends and family connections, and would utilize visual/auditory/movement recognition software tied in with a network of CCTV and microphones that would permeate the nation (the world??)"
You read "1984" too many times ! Building a national database is more probable. Every nation has many databases and to obtain a national security database, a nation only has to unify what already exists. I think the US is a leader in this.
Squall: George Orwell didn't know about computers, AI and databases. In fact, if you think about his world, it was based on fear. The watchers described therein were a mathematical impossibility.
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Eschelon is reportedly already using voice recognition software on international communications. Their database is already international. An eschelon computer that had my "voiceprint" could sort through billions of international telephone calls and unerringly select mine. CCTV reportedly covers most of London. When you enter UK customs you will be exposed to CCTV, which will associate your image and voice with your passport identity and remember you thereafter. It would be able to sort through all the CCTV inputs of London, and find you. (In fact, there would probably be a subroutine that "followed" your movements, noting your actions, contacts etc. All that is possible with present technology. If you ever tried to again enter the UK under an alias, even 20 years later, that computer would know about the alias.
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"Data mining" is the process of finding useful information that is "lost" in multiple unsorted databases.
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Read 1984, then square or cube that monitoring. Except "they" would not need to use fear, and would maintain a looser control, one that 99.9% of the population never realized was there. But surveillance would record your every conversation, AI software would analyze all your musings, written words, everything you said & did for "anti-government" tendencies, and would alert an authority of any situation that government policy had decided was actionable.
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In a few years, (if not already) it is quite possible that someone musing such thoughts as I write here would come to the notice of such an "anti-terrorist" intelligence network. In fact, quite probably, these words will come to the notice of authorities when data mining gets really serious.
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Of course such a system would be perfect for catching terrorists. But what government can you trust with such surreptitious powers?
The Arabs are not cowards, psychos or subhumans. They are a proud and strong people who should be respected as enemies and honorable foes.
THEY are the normal ones. Indeed, I think that religious Jews can have more kinship with traditionalist Arabs than with many of the decadent and hedonistic Western nations.
It is because we respect them that we know what they are capable of and thus are prepared to do what it takes to gain what is ours. The Arabs understand strength and power, as Obadiah has outlined in his book.
On the other point, I think the weakening of governments, rather than their strengthening is in our future. But that's just my opinion.
I don't feel compelled to respect Arabs. Their culture is the pits, highly influenced by the murderous perversion known as Islam. I don't respect any enemy. And I don't have to.
Bar, look into Promis software. Its already used by the US, Canada and Israel has already adapted it for their own uses. I heard lately the gov't wanted an Israeli data base of all Israeli's living abroad. They can go f–k themselves!
Is it that they are sub-human, or do we aspire to be super-human?
Either way, sub-humans, and regular humans, are still dangerous.
Except, of course, in the eyes of the left - which considers Arabs as some sort of harmless pet - the most degrading attitude of them all.
Interesting but in my view rather beside the point. One my or another, what is beyond the shadow of a doubt is that the Arabs, collectively, and their governments are intent on the destruction of Israel and annihilation of the Jews. So understand their motives, psychology, sense of victim hood will not change the outcome.And it's not only Hamas, Hizbullah and Iran. Israelis visit Egypt; how many Egyptian tourists has one encountered in Israel? Egypt isn't enforcing nor keeping their end of the bargain regarding the Gaza border and is slowly building up its military. Israeli airports are getting dangerously close to enemy rocket fire. And Israeli politicians care about world public opinion!? That's laughable - the PR was was lost 30 years ago. Rest assured no country - the US, Germany, France, Britain will lift a finger to do anything to save Israel. Not reacting while Iran and Syria arm their proxies is committing national suicide. Pursuing peace with the Palestinians in particular and the Arabs in general is a compete waste of time and money. Jews have a right to exist and Israel is the only place in the world where we can defend ourselves.
Brilliant. It's always a pleasure reading you Obadiah.
Your comparisons within the article are sharp to the point.
Arabs are not sub-human. Islam however is at least 500 years behind other religions. While Christianity has transformed itself into a personal religion, Islam is still what Christianity was 500 years ago - a totalitarian control of every aspect of the individual, tolerating no opposition.
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The situation may be even worth than that, it is possible that Islam is non-transformable. The "holy" book of Islam unlike those of Christianity and Judaism was puked up by just one single pathological individual. Every word is supposed to have come directly from their "Allah". It leaves much less space for different interpretations, therefore Islam may be like an invasive species. It invades the territory and destroys other higher species in it's wake.
For example: Indonesia, "Pakistan", Afghanistan, Malaysia, and of course Persia, had higher cultures before they were invaded by Islam.
Of course Arabs are not born bad, but they suffer from a lethal and disease - Islam. Ideally we should kill Islam without killing Arabs. Without Islam, there would have been very little opposition against the Jewish state of Israel.
Kill Islam, Ray? Who are you to say which religion should exist, and which should not?
These people choose their religion. It is befitting their thought patterns.
They are not victims of their own religion. They are proud of it - unlike most Jews.
Most sub-humans are quite fond of their cultures.
Ray — Have you ever actually read the Koran, besides a few excerpts? It is perfectly OK with me if you want to hate Mohammed and his recitation, but you are wrong if you believe the Koran is not amenable to a civilized interpretation. For many, many years, Islam was indeed interpreted in a tolerant and humane way. The modern fundamentalist insanity is largely the result of the very misguided efforts of the British to create an "Arab nationalism" (that had never existed) in order to make Arabs less susceptible to Nazi conquest and to be good allies (very confused they were). It is the PEOPLE who practice any religion who ultimately define it. We could ban Islam, but the practitioners would have to be killed for the ban to be effective.
And Ray, it was the civilized Europeans who felt most threatened by educated, civilized Jews establishing a state in the middle-east. The illiterate Arabs were relatively easy to control — just buy off the effendi. Not so with highly educated, and often communist or socialist, Zionist Jews. They were perceived as a threat not only to stability in the oil regions, but in a larger sense, to capitalism and imperialism generally.
Joseph,
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I haven't read through the Koran, but am prepared to believe that even in the parts I haven't read, that it directs believers towards a quite innocuous & neighbourly lifestyle.
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The problems start when you realize that Mahommed could do no wrong. He is as near to perfect as was possible. This problem is made real by the Sunna or Hadith, which is perhaps best described as a collection of biographies on Mahommed. The nearest approximation to the Sunna/Hadith would be the books "Matthew, Mark, Luke & John" in the Christian New Testament.
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So this "perfect in God's eyes" prophet is detailed in the Sunna as having committed genocide on Jews, had political rivals murdered, collected a tithe from the proceeds of crime (specifically caravan raids), and dealt in slaves.
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Lots of parents do that. Do what I say, not what I do". Hence it is fairly easy to see where fundamentalists get the moral justification for the acts that we call "terrorist".
"The modern fundamentalist insanity is largely the result of the very misguided efforts of the British to create an "Arab nationalism""
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Oh really Joseph? Is that how you explain Muhammad beheading 700 Jews, the Moslem conquests/forced conversions in the 1000's in Maghreb, the Muslims massacring thousands of Jews in Fez in 1033, the Almohad Dynasty invasion & forced conversions in Spain (which was the reason Rambam's family fled btw) and the same in 1100's in Yemen, all over the middle East a good 700 years before any attempts at "arab nationalism" by the British?
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For many years Islam was interpreted as it is written. The most intolerant of political world-domination schemes and hate speech in recorded history. It still is. It is modern apologists and leftists in bed with Islam and Arabs that TELL YOU it was interpreted tolerantly for many years. It is a romanticized vision ignorant of history.
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You would be wise to read Maimonides' letter to the Yemenite Jews which describes the very non-Western-influenced Islamic maltreatment of Jews in various communities. Rambam refers to Muhammad as the meshugga. I've read this letter, and it is an excellent work of the Rambam containing a wealth of wisdom.
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Andrew Bostom also covers this topic in depth in his book The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism. I've not yet read this work, but I did read Ibn Warraq's intro, which was very good.
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It would also be worth exploring Jewish history in Egypt in the 19th century, which included fervent antisemitism by Egyptian Moslems, well before the supposed British meddling. I believe Bostom also covers this topic in depth in his book.
Rambam's letter to Yemen Jews
bar — You are right that the belief in Mohammed's "perfection" almost automatically makes such believers sociopaths, at the very least, and psychopathic murders all too often.
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VL — No, I would not explain all the evil done by Mohammed and his followers by blaming it on the British. And I excuse none of it. My point is merely that the Koran can, and has been, interpreted in a much more civilized way than it is by nut-cases ancient and modern. I'm sure someone here can give more accurate numbers, but my "guess-timate" would be that Christians (and that does NOT include Hitler) have killed as many Jews as have the Muslims over the centuries, but no one (or very few, anyway) would argue that a Christian is "required" to kill Jews, while many modern Muslims do believe in such a "duty".
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There have been extended periods when Jews lived at peace with Muslims who considered themselves devout, thus such an interpretation of Islam is demonstrably possible.
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The Brits did not create the problem, but they sure made it much worse.
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Thanks for the reference to Bostom; I'll check it out.
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Danny — Thanks for the link to Maimonides.
Joseph,
I read as much Koran as I was able to before vomiting. That book has no literary quality. It is boring, repetitive, crude, devoid of all poetry and beauty (that is so abundant in the Bible) it is never ending threats. Koran incites the Muslims to conquer the world for Allah, and clearly describes all sort of tortures that befit those who reject Muhammad. The only way to be neighbors with Muslims is to be Dhimmis/slaves.
The religious aspect was weak when relatively short time when the Muslim empire was civilized (by those days standards). At that time Muslims were a minority in that empire. The empire was full of Pharsis, Christians and Jews who all contributed to the culture. After 2 or three century of RELATIVE tolerance the "Golden Age" of islam ended with reverting to religious fanaticism. This was not because of the west. But it was the cause for Muslims falling backwards while Europe gained scientific knowledge and power.
Since at least 1300 Muslims have been behind Europeans scientifically and falling staidly back economically and militarily.
Only because of the trillions of petrodollars have they revived their idiotic ideology.
Islam is not a religion, it is Arab imperialism. There is almost NOTHING spiritual in Koran. It is about as spiritual as Mein Kampf.
So Ray, how much of the Koran did you read before you started vomiting? Do all scriptures have that effect on you? We all know how evil Adolph was, but that was not the reason I've never finished Mein Kampf — it is just abyssmal prose. (Marx, on the other hand, brought as much evil to the world, and Stalin murdered more people than Hitler, but Marx WAS an excellent writer.)
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I refuse to be made into a defender of Islam, especially on a Jewish site. But I will defend the principles of good scholarship, anywhere. Arguments by the ignorant diminish their points.
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I will offer here one quotation, that it took me all of two minutes to find completely at random at http://www.sacred-texts.com. (It wouldn't be fair to use my own copy of the text with my notes.)
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"Book 40. al-Mu'min: The Forgiving One
"53 And We verily gave Moses the guidance, and We caused the Children of Israel to inherit the Scripture,
"54 A guide and a reminder for men of understanding."
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Mohammed here (and many other places) acknowledges that God gave the Torah to the Jews. His biggest problem with the Jews is that they did not convert their pagan Arab cousins. Look it up, if you can hold in your vomit. But since you think there is nothing "holy" about the Hebrew Scriptures, I quess in your world view, nothing "holy" is in the Koran either. You must lead a very sad existence.
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My ONLY point here has been that it is POSSIBLE for a Muslim to follow a reasonable interpretation of Islam. It has happened before. Evil Muslims must die. It is their fault, not the Koran's, that they are evil. There have been lots of evil Jews and Christians and Hindus (and even Atheists) over the ages.
And Ray, Danny started the Forum largely on your suggestion — how come you never post there anymore?
Joseph. You obviously haven't read the Koran. It is the Koran's fault as well. You are attempting to whitewash Islam. Do you not understand the concepts of TAQIYA, and REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY? Yes, of course, every Muslim knows that Moses got revelation from G-d like many other prophets they celebrate. But they BELIEVE MOSES WAS REALLY A MUSLIM. This passage you quoted, juxtapose with the passages that describe al yehudi (The Jews) in the Koran, and you have the exact Muslim mix.
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It goes like this Joseph: Jews received prophesy from "allah" but they corrupted the bible. This was why it was even necessary for Muhammad to show up and get the koran!!! We Jews are so sneaky and evil and greedy (and all the other attributes the Koran describes us with) that we DECEIVED allah and corrupted his text for personal gain. This is the basic Muslim claim. Muslims are so feeble-minded that they don't realize how pathetic their deity is for them to say we deceived it. Yet they believe this strongly. This is why European blood libel and 'zionist conspiracy'/protocols of Zion sold so well in the Arab world once imported. We Jews have superpowers of deception according to the Koran. On the basic translation, simple reading of Koran, we Jews are evil, cursed tricksters, and the greediest of all people by default (hmmm, koranic racism? yet the muslims pretend they are like despised blacks who resent racism. Arab moslems led the black slave trade).
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This is the basic Muslim view. Koran has far worse to say about us as well. You'd benefit from actually reading it. Most of the "friendly passages" or "friendly interpretations" are used for taqiya purposes.
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For example. If you ever believed the "respect for people of the book" nonsense you were taught in school like I was, Mercaz Harav murders of children with Torah books in their hands should show you how much respect they have for people of the book. It is only respect for ANY Non Muslim to the extent that that non Muslim is willing to be a demoralized, defeated dhimmi slave.
+ Keep your friends close, and keep your enemies closer + Know your enemy + Love your enemy (another form of knowing) +
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All very sound military advice, and just incidentally, the advice that Muslim Arabs seem to be following towards Jews.
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Regardless, I do not see how Islam can prevail. It is a primitive religion, frozen in amber. It does not encourage creativity (except religious art).
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I have a neighbour called Alison who is like the Muslims. No matter what concessions I made for peace, hoping for reciprocal concessions. She took those concessions as deserved, and a show of weakness, and demanded more.
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My solution has been to listen to her complaints, decide on them as fairly as I can, apply them and then ignore her. I insist that every communication between us be written. She still snipes, but that procedure leaves her with no unanswered gripes.
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My lack of emotional response or counterattack seems to humiliate her, and makes it harder for her to continue her attacks. Our neighbours can see that I am doing nothing in the face of provocation, and see that I do make fair compromises on reasonable issues that she raises.
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This strategy seems to work. She has lost credibility. Her credibility is further reduced since she now transfers her attacks to just about everybody else in the neighbourhood because they do join her to not act united against me.
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metaphors. metaphors.
VL — Yes, you have me: My copy of the Koran has a broken spine and the pages filled with margin notes are falling out (it's just a paperback) not because I have read it, but because I threw it into a tornado.
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It is very possible that I misinterpret scriptures (many Christians have told me I misinterpret theirs, but so did Bishop Arius according to the prevailing view), but at least I can, and do, offer quotations from the text in question to back-up my (faulty?) conclusions.
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It is hardly debatable that many, or even most, Muslims hate Jews, and that they have done much evil because of this misplaced hatred. But I repeat, since you apparently missed it the first time: My ONLY point on the subject is that it is POSSIBLE for a Muslim to follow a reasonable interpretation of his religion and be a civilized person.
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You, perhaps, have read the Koran, and have formed your own conclusions. But my comments were originally directed to Ray, who does not believe in Torah or the God of Moses but hates the Koran which he has never read. He blames the text for the evil done by the Arabs. I blame evil people for the evil they do.
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I completely agree with Obadiah, as far as I understand him, in his Machiavellian approach: It really does not matter WHY things are like they are — we just have to deal with the realities on the ground. It is not necessary to determine WHY the Arabs are enemies of Israel — it is simply necessary to be unambiguous in Israel's determination to DEFEAT them.
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I certainly never learned about Islam in school. When I was a child, everyone still prayed Christian prayers in the public (government) schools. And I found it offensive, even though I was from a Christian family. In college, the Jewish professors I had were either atheist communists or new-agers like Ray. I had no Muslim professors, or if I did, I didn't know it because they kept it out of the classroom. I had anti-Israel professors in law school, but they were all godless communists.
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bar — Truly, to know one's enemy is the first rule of warfare. Sun Tzu (circa 500 BCE). (Yes, VL, I've read it.)
Let me modify one statement: WHY might matter, if Israel could reasonably expect to CHANGE it. Since Israel cannot reasonably expect to change Wahabist indoctrination in the foreseeable future, WHY does not matter for all practical purposes. Only DEFEAT of the enemy matters.
I'd like to add, that reading the Koran matters very little in understanding the enemy.
All you have to know, is the way they interpret the book.
And you have to realize, that whatever interpretation you have of the same words, is different - simply because you come from a different cultural, ethnic, and ethical background, and because people interpret the ideas of others according to their own desires.
Thus, one person can read a paragraph, and deduct that it talks about peaceful coexistence, while another (Who really wants to pick a fight), will explain why it actually means to kill all Zionist dogs. (What did the dogs do to them? Many of them are rather friendly - what with the tail wiggling, and all).
This reminds me of something that an 'ethics student' wrote, about her being right on every ethical subject, because she holds a degree in the field.
A degree that tells you your opinions about a subject are right… Are universities cashing in on human stupidity, or what?
Erick — Sadly, you're right on all points.
But on the good side, at least I'm right
Saw your ad in HaAretz. Pleasant shock, if only leaving a bitter taste in my mouth. Interesting "card" imagery, though. And you can kvell on getting traffic from a left-wing site. Ha.
So you're saying we should appeal to the lowest common denominators in our societies because that's what "they" do? Or are you saying we're already there?
The denominator is common, but why is it the lowest? Religion, nationalism, patriotism, fighting are noble things. They are infinitely better than the absurdity of political correctness.
Dick Cheney had it right: SO?
Let's say your right in terms of the moral equivalence of the two sides. Let's go further and agree that what the Arabs are doing is OK, because they are doing what Jews would do in the same circumstances. Therefore , Jews are justified in doing whatever they choose in defending themselves and expanding their power.
If anything, this article is an articulate, if accidental defense of any and all Jewish action in eradicating the terrorist threat.
The point is the same, whether from the left or the right. THe jews are justified in aggressively protecting themselves, waging peace by waging war.